The Lotus Grand Tourers

Hi,

Sorry for more thread drift....

Yes according to the Robson book, when Lotus started looking at making their own engine in the mid to late 1960s they looked at a few options, considered a v6 and others but settled on the slant 4 because it allowed the low bonnet profile and would also be the design and dimension basis for the 4 litre V8. The first thing they did was design the cylinder head, as this would be the basis for both engines. But due to financial constraints the 909 V8 never got past prototyping.

I read an extract from Tony Rudd's autobiography, he said in about 1971 when Colin Chapman outlined his new car plans to move upmarket he invited them over to his house and in the back garden explained his vision for the new car lineup. There were 6 models form the start- a four seater with 2 litre 4cyl engine (ie ended up being the elite), a 4 seater with 4 litre V8, a 2+2 (the eclat) with 2 litre 4 cyl, a 2+2 with 4 litre V8, and the mid engined 2 seater (the esprit), 2 litres, and the 2 seater mid engined with a 4 litre V8. The V8 esprit is the only one that made it to production but with a different V8.

So the V8 was in the plans from the start, it just Lotus didn't get it into production.

Out of interest I read somewhere that the V8 engine cost Lotus as much to develop as the whole Elise.

Mat.

I'd like to add to this attempt at the world's longest Excel.net thread.

I think the 912 engine and the Elite,Eclat and Excel are mis-matched. The cars are supposed to be GTs yet have this low torque high revving 4 cyl motor which is at odds with the rest of the car. A V8 would be more suited in my opinion. Not long after I bought my Excel I phoned the bloke who bought the car new for a chat. He told me he sold the car around a year after he bought it new as he just didn't like the way the engine performed. The rest of the car, epecially the interior, he really liked.

Having said all that I'm quite happy to drive it the way the engine demands and there is no way I'm going to throw out a perfectly healthy 912. I like the engine and it sounds great at full chat. But if, God forbid, my car's engine suffered a catastrophic failure a V8 engine would be top of my list when considering a replacement.

Yeah agree with the above, If lotus had fitted a rover v8 to the car as standard it would have been better IMO

Peter wrote:Yeah agree with the above, If lotus had fitted a rover v8 to the car as standard it would have been better IMO

You have posed, for me at least, an interesting question!

• "Would I have actually bought my Elite in 1981 if it had a Rover V8 fitted as standard?"

Well, probably not.

In 1981 I had a 2 seat car which regularly saw 9 - 10000 rpm - and I needed a four seater (due to new baby). And just like the present day with the K-series Mk1/11 Elise (and to a lesser extent the Toyota Elise), I would not have been attracted to a Lotus that did not have an engine substantially designed by Lotus, and certainly NOT a hydraulically controlled low revving 8 valve engine made by BL/Rover! The engine for me is the heart of the car, and it needed to be "cammy" and rev freely. It also helped (my decision) that the 900 series had been used successfully as a competition engine during that time (70's /80's), and that it was one of the first production cars to have a 16 valve engine fitted as standard. Basically, as a young dude in my 20's I couldn't live without a revvy engine.

I dare say, despite the lack of torque of the early 900 series, the Elite/Eclat had a definite appeal at the time because of it's advanced engine design! IMO had Lotus fitted a V8 it would have had to have 32 Valves - so the Rover V8 would not have "cut it" considering the "market expectations" of Lotus (and high performance engines) at the time.

Times and attitudes have changed - and folk today are attracted to low reving diesels for a whole host or reasons not even on the radar at the time of the birth of the Elite/Eclat/Esprit! So bear in mind when judging marketing decisions made in the past that (your) tastes are coloured by today's values and expectations.

Pete Boole wrote:I've got EFI Live on the laptop but I've only just scratched the surface - The ECU is no longer looking for all the Californian smog equipment, I can turn on/off the anti-theft system - I have modified one of the channels to log fuel pressure etc, but I haven't used it to alter the fuel/ignition maps. I think the rolling road is the best place for that for me. That will be much easier if I change to the DTA system, as lots of tuners are familiar with it, but I can't face the rewiring yet! Steep learning curve with the mapping etc...

Supercharger sounds like a brilliant plan , like Ozzy's. Get cracking! You've got until May!!


Pete

i doubt i will have even started mine in may... however i have an 8 week fully paid sabatical to take this year, so will be getting cracking on the excel in this time finally!! (as well as hopefully getting out in my friends Elise Trophy race car)

When I finally get my car track-ready I'm going to need some tuition from someone like you Ozzy with lots of track experince - I've got none . Yet!!

(sorry, thread drift continues)

Pete

Pete Boole wrote:When I finally get my car track-ready I'm going to need some tuition from someone like you Ozzy with lots of track experince - I've got none . Yet!!

(sorry, thread drift continues)

Pete

We will have at least one racing driver/instructor available at the May event (if the sponsorship deals come good).

Pete Boole wrote:When I finally get my car track-ready I'm going to need some tuition from someone like you Ozzy with lots of track experince - I've got none . Yet!!

(sorry, thread drift continues)

Pete

tell me when and where and i will endevour to bring the Elise with me, happy to talk you round somewhere like Brands where i have done literally hundreds of laps (about 800 last count)...

gratuitous pic excuse:



my friend Alex Soar in driver seat, with Phil Stratton-Lake (multiple Elise Trophy production class winner).

was meant to be at Stowe Circuit (Silverstone) on 16th Feb, but money issues have dictated otherwise it would seem...

amarshall wrote:

Pete Boole wrote:When I finally get my car track-ready I'm going to need some tuition from someone like you Ozzy with lots of track experince - I've got none . Yet!!

(sorry, thread drift continues)

Pete

We will have at least racing driver/instructor available at the May event (if the sponsorship deals come good).

i can also highly recomend Lotus-On-Track, lifetime member, do all my TDs with them... absolutely fantastic group, loads of people happy to take you out and show you lines, and tuition is only £20 on top of a £120-160 track day, which is excellently organised and run.

Also Lotus Driving academy is brilliant, (but a little expensive for most at 400-600 for a day) but definately good value for money in terms of cars, instructors etc...
Spent half a day with Martin Donnelly at Hethel, once you can decode what he is actually saying hes a lovely bloke and an excellent tutor!

Angus - I'm back on the case again re putting the car back together and have arranged our May trip to the Pyrenees to avoid that weekend, so hoping to be there!

Ozzy - Thanks very much! When I get the car reassembled and reliable I'll take you up on that!! (note to self - must buy passenger seat!!)

Pete

Hey Ozzy !
Nice to see you are back here.
I suppose now you are able to find time to send me the last part I bought you (and paid...) more than 2 years ago...

kent_racer wrote:Hey Ozzy !
Nice to see you are back here.
I suppose now you are able to find time to send me the last part I bought you (and paid...) more than 2 years ago...

can you remind me what exactly? i bought an engine as it was? assume thats being rebuilt nicely? what was it you wanted? (car still under a load of snow, and as i said still untouched... will be getting round to it in June/July when i get my sabatical from work...

Someone has excellent taste! That Elise is painted the best colour for a race car. I do not know where I have seen another race car that colour!!

Danny wrote:Someone has excellent taste! That Elise is painted the best colour for a race car. I do not know where I have seen another race car that colour!!

Maidstone sports cars have one the same colour with butterflys on it!!!

Hmme! Not sure about the idea of butterflies