The Lotus Grand Tourers

I'l talk to you about that pete when I see you. A man cant have enough bits you know.
this treads starting to sound dangerously like car porn. Is it because its snowing outside ?
Bash

bash wrote:mmmmmmm. Its the rear axle ratio that makes all the difference to mpg. The 390se had about 3.1;1 I think, but even tho it was tuned I could get better fuel consumption than with a standard 350i. if I was very careful on the m/way I could get almost 30 mpg, but 27 was easyily attainable. Well into single figures on a track day tho. I remember brimming the tank at the filling station adjacent to donington before going in, but needing to fill up again to get home. but it depends how you view figures like yours. If its your everyday car then its bad news, but if its a toy for high days and holidays then its just part of the cost of having fun. Im with the latter view.
I like ozzys plan, but new ecu's put me right off. the cost how that would have me crowing like the yorkshireman I am, 'HOW MUCH'. (without the 'h' of course.)

Bash

i bought 2 emerald ECUs for £900, then sold one for £600, so the ecu only cost me £300, and will run the V8 in wasted spark format...

the 912 was doing between 4 and 6 mpg at brands hatch, i am willing to bet that the V8 will be better than the 912 at all times purely based on EFI vs Carbs...

oh and dif wise, i will change to the SA diff, 3.9:1 instead of 4.1:1, but thats all... i dont care about motorways as the car is not used for comuting, purely fun drives, back roads, and track...

You've got to talk about it because it's too ***** cold in the garage to go and actually do anything. Yes - snowing here as well!

Pete

mappable is something i will need to look at for the blower.


I'll need to almost flip the advance curve, with advance brought in early then retarded back as rpm and boost rises. Obviously, there is hee-haw chance of achieving that with vacuum and mechanical, and it will be so much easier with mappable.

I've looked at the obvious ones like MSD and Megasquirt/jolt, but am drawn to the leftfield choice of 123ignition, whose mappable unit is called 123 tune.

I'll have to change the cam for one with no overlap, to save blowing fuel out the tail, and have another look at the clutch (Jaguar) which seems marginal on current power (although it may just need adjusting).

What are your experiences with engine management?

I want something i can tinker with.... smart money is probably on megasquirt with an edis8, especially if I go to throttle bodies at some point, but at the moment I am drawn to the 123tune - probably because no-one else I know has tried it and it looks standard/decent value.

Ozzy the f series 7.5" toyota diff was also fitted into the front axle of some 4 runners with a 3.58 ratio, which allegedly bolts into the supra case if you are interested, its still to high for me tho.
bash
Im off now.......... i need a cold shower

I've got EFI Live on the laptop but I've only just scratched the surface - The ECU is no longer looking for all the Californian smog equipment, I can turn on/off the anti-theft system - I have modified one of the channels to log fuel pressure etc, but I haven't used it to alter the fuel/ignition maps. I think the rolling road is the best place for that for me. That will be much easier if I change to the DTA system, as lots of tuners are familiar with it, but I can't face the rewiring yet! Steep learning curve with the mapping etc...

Supercharger sounds like a brilliant plan , like Ozzy's. Get cracking! You've got until May!!


Pete

dear bash,
as a traffic cop have you ever done the arithmetic that suggests that if the rest of us drove like those in your old job something in the region of 20,000 people would be killed every year. as you own a lotus i'm sure i can exclude you from the calculation.

So

The easiest, most reliable, would be the rover v8?
with fuel injection? I imagine you would end up with
a fast and reliable car? Low maintainance, fast,
easist, etc.

Pete.

bash wrote:Try this site if you are keen.
http://www.lextreme.com/1uzfe_info.html
But its not a cheap route !
Bash

So

The easiest, most reliable, would be the rover v8?
with fuel injection? I imagine you would end up with
a fast and reliable car? Low maintainance, fast,
easist, etc.

Pete.

Ok I’m not trying to get into an argument here... but a couple of points

IMHO you will not install a rover v8 (as mentioned one from an automatic sd1 - not a Grif 500), modify and upgrade the cooling system, change "the gearing", find a suitable flywheel clutch/bell housing, upgrade the fuel system, install the wire harness and ECU, fabricate an exhaust system and modify the sump/cross member and/or bonnet without adding a significant amount of weight... please correct me...

I would take my hat off to anyone who can do this transplant for the stated budget of about £500 with out cutting some serious corners or doing everything thing them selves...

A standard v8 was 158ish at best on an engine dyno when new... even half a hp lost per year doesn’t leave an exciting number, although admittedly there should still be more torque than a 912... which will probably cause its own issues requiring further expenditure…

Comparing a Grif 500 and an excel isn’t really a fair fight and a Griff certainly doesn’t have a bog standard rover 3.5 engine does it now... although I personally would rather arrive in an excel than brake down in spectacular fashion a TVR... (ok below the belt... they are pretty)

Perhaps some one with an elite/éclat parts manual could list the amount of front springs listed and the notes as to why they are different?... but what would lotus know about suspension and handling

mds666 wrote:IMHO you will not install a rover v8 (as mentioned one from an automatic sd1 - not a Grif 500), modify and upgrade the cooling system, change "the gearing", find a suitable flywheel clutch/bell housing, upgrade the fuel system, install the wire harness and ECU, fabricate an exhaust system and modify the sump/cross member and/or bonnet without adding a significant amount of weight... please correct me....

you can.

you don't need to do half the things you have listed to fit the rover v8. crossmember? sump? fuel system upgrade? wiring harness? ecu? exhaust fab? flywheel? clutch?

Most people will fit it the usual way, by plugging the fuel pipe into the carb, and attaching a 12V switched feed to the coil. Use the standard flywheel, the standard clutch, normal rad (recore is recommended) and P6 exhaust manifolds. The only bit of fab that is needed is the mounts.

A standard v8 was 158ish at best on an engine dyno when new...

your still not getting the maths about the quoted peak bhp being the same for both engines, but at a lower engine speed, which equates to more performance from the v8. bhp is not a good measure of power unless the engine speeds are equal. An engine that produces 160bhp at 3000rpm is producing more force than an engine that produces 160bhp at 5500rpm. its a more powerful engine, and makes the car faster, that's why lots of us have fitted 3.5 v8's.

which will probably cause its own issues requiring further expenditure…

I use EBC brake pads to cope with the extra performance. not that pricey....

what would lotus know about suspension and handling

[/quote]

Lotus know a fair bit about suspension and handling. The offered different springs on the higher spec cars to compensate for the 20-30kg extra weight from PAS and AC.

but as you have chosen a nice light V8 engine which weighs as near as dammit to the 165kg of the 907/912, you would use the standard springs.

257spring wrote:
So

The easiest, most reliable, would be the rover v8?
with fuel injection? I imagine you would end up with
a fast and reliable car? Low maintainance, fast,
easist, etc.

Pete.

Easiest yes, cheapest yes...most reliable...? that would probably be a toyota, but an RV8 is not unreliable.

Fuel injection doesn't actually give more power than a 4 barrel carb on a rv8, but it does gives better economy. Down side is that you need to change the fuel pump and feed if you want fuel injection. A carb is easiest. you just plug the normal fuel pipe in.

With an offenhauser dual plane manifold and a holley with a lowish profile aircleaner, you can fit it under the bonnet. Mine has a box because its used an edelbrock performer manifold, which is said to give slightly better power at the top end.

This is great stuff, this argument about keeping a car original or not, I can see my car brought back to it's original condition and that would be the right thing to do, at that point I'd swap it for the v8 on ebay!

if you really are interested in whats involved, do a google search on Belchamber and eclat.

His conversion was on an eclat, but most of the info is relevant. mating to the toyota box is different, but you have the option of the rover 5 speed if it looks too hard.

If i were you 257 spring, assuming you like eclats, i would have emailed the guy who was selling the eclatv8 on ebay.

From what i could see - it has decent paint, window frames, re-covered roof, new engine parts all over and an interior re-trim. I could be wrong as photos can lie BUT from a distance it looked very sorted.
Bear in mind Lotus's are not great fans of inactivity, this one had sat for 4 years so expect a few grand in re-commisioning of bits like brakes, clutch and tyres....

Even so, it is clear the car was worth a punt......would have been worth a lot more in bits!
The guy selling it pulled it before the 24 hour marker was up as it didn't reach his expectations and wasn't prepared to let it for peanuts......ergo he still has it!

To be fair - i was a tad gutted.....i wanted it