MSD Ignition Again Who Has Tried It

[JimmyC379]

Hi All,

I am just wondering if anyone has tried a MSD ignition and what are their expirences?

Cheers,

Jimmy

[tonypoll]

Has anyone replaced their ignition with anything else (I noticed recently a reference elsewhere on the forum to the Canems engine management system).
One other site for the Lotus 900 series engines (see for an old Jensen Healey article http://www.jensenhealey.com/tech/s_arch-dist.html) speaks highly of replaceing the standard ignition (I appreciate the original Jensen Healey ignition points based system was particularly old/bad and any replacement was probably wonderful in comparison).
An ignition only solution might yield significant benefits without all the extra expense of going the whole fuel injection/engine management route.
Maybe an MSD style solution, still using the distributor. Or a crank-shaft timing solution, as described at the Jensen site, using auxiliary input such as intake vacuum and maybe an anti-knock sensor is 'best'. Do later Esprit models, which had engine management systems, have 'off the shelf' toothed crankshaft pulley, crankshaft sensor attachment point, and anti-knock sensor that could be easily used? (I suspect the full ECU from the Esprit would not be needed for such a simple systems as I'm think for the Excel, and too expensive)

I'd be interested to hear other people's views, and especially their experience of specific solutions.

[fitz]

I've begun to look into this as well so would be interested to see what people think.

I've been looking at MSD, but for one that includes a Rev Limiter and is adjustable (I presume this would bring benefits over a static? system) you're looking at around the £500 mark, i'd definatly want to notice a difference for that!

Aldon and Lumenition do magnetic points replacement systems which from my undertanding simply eliminate the reliability / adjustment issues of the points, so would not be an improvement per se over a good condition accurate points system in terms of performance / driveability, they are about £80

Finally lumenition do an optical variable dwell system with new coil etc for £250 + appropriate dizzy fitting kit, i'm tempted by this as a nice halfway house that brings reliability improvements, and possibly slightly more driveability without going the whole hog.

Anyone know of any alternatives to the MSD system for a controlled ignition?

[Lotus-e-Clan]

The USP of some of the MSD units is a multispark mode below 3krpm. This will help complete combustion but the best benefits are made by converting to a distributor-less system.

I've gone for the Canems system for my Clan which has cost me 435 quid for a COMPLETE turnkey solution including new pulley/trigger wheel, crank sensor, tps, ECU, loom and connectors, and Sagem/vario wasted spark coil pack, all mounting brackets and software. I could have got a cheaper Megajolt ECU but this uses the Ford stuff and you need a separate EDIS module to work the coil pack, the the Canems "EDIS" brain is built into the ECU so can operate the Sagem/Vario coil pack directly. Also the Canems can switch between MAP and TPS and has both hard and soft rev limiters and a shift light option...the Megajolt has to be specified for MAP or TPS at build time.

I'll be fitting this over Christmas/New year hols. The turnkey kit was possible because the proprietor is an Imp owner/fan so the hardware was easy to knock-up. Different story for the 912 engine and I'd guess Lotus Bits would be able to advise on pulleys/trigger wheels sensors and brackets.

Advantages over a distributor:
1) ECU dual coil wasted spark system means a big fat spark at ALL rpm and at high compression ratios too (the Clan has a 9.5 k rpm limit and 11.5:1 comp ratio).
2) no component wear so consistent ignition timing is guaranteed - absolutely no scatter between cylinders which is impossible to avoid when the distributor wears ...and even new distributors have a degree of inaccuracy.
3) 3D programme using MAP sensor or TPS (mine needs TPS due to the wild cam) which is essential for tuning a modified engine (eg Jerry's engine would benefit from mapped ignition alone) but is still advantageous for stock engines as it allows you to optimise the OEM ignition advance and make adjustments for changes in fuel octane rating.

EDIT: Extra advantage for the Excel...reduced fire risk 'cos the HT leads will be well away from the carbs and no oil leak from the distributor once removed and blanked off.

Perhaps Lotus bits can think about do a turnkey IGNITION ONLY conversion kit including all fixtures and fittings using either Canems or the Megajolt ECU?

[fitz]

I was happy with the £250 Lumenition solution until you posted that


LOL....

[tonypoll]

Here's what LotusBits have to say about Lumenition: (see http://www.lotusbits.com/improving_your_lotus.pdf)
'When the Lotus Excel was launched, Lotus moved to the Lucas AB14 constant energy ignition system, which is much more reliable than the Lumenition system'.

[tonypoll]

You may want to look at Summit as an alternative to MSD
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850610/
From what I could see people speak quite highly of this alternative, and suggest it may be a re-badged Mallory product.

[kent_racer]

Pertronix seems another way too :

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/strike/default.aspx

[fitz]

I'm doing some more research today, and will try and knock up a spreadsheet with different options / prices etc.

I must admit, if i do this is the new year i'm leaning towards canems / megajolt options. Mainly because they fit a good price / perceived quality / performance point for me, as I don't run and don't plan to a modified engine I do think i'd see any benefits from a more expensive MSD / OMEX / DTA solution.

Plus both above use / can use common ford / Vx components, which could help an AA man...

I'm presuming Mike T is referring to a standard fit lumenition system of a similar era to the Excel, rather than the optical performance offering?

[JimmyC379]

It took some time but it is good to see some similar minded people. Just another note to the mix, on eBay you can get a delivered MSD to AUS for about $300.00 including MSD coil (or around 200.00 pound). I think I will give this a go early next year, Hopefully I will then be able to run a 0.8 gap in my spark plugs meaning more power!!!

[fitz]

For peoples benefit I have summarised popular options and those listed above, including links and Uk prices. To enable a fair comparison I've checked that all products hav at least a soft rev limiter, as I don't believe the Lucas unit is compatible with capacitive discharge units which most of these are. Please also be aware in most cases these are Ecu unit only, and you'll need wires / sensors / trigger wheels / coils etc.

Ignition Improvement Options

Full Ignition Management including rev limiter.


Omex 200 Series ECU

http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/Ecus/200/omem200.htm

Price: £345 + VAT (ECU unit only)

Canems Ignition ECU

http://www.canems.co.uk/catalog/index.p ... cts_id=203

Price: £400 ~ Including almost all parts, £250 Ecu only

Megajolt v4

http://www.autosportlabs.com/megajolte- ... rrency=GBP

Price: £100 Ecu only, ~ £200/250 est including all parts.

MSD 6AL

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/New ... ntrol.aspx

Price: £325 + VAT, Ecu only

Petronics Second Strike

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/strike/default.aspx

Price: £215 Ex Vat (USD converted)

Summit Racing 850610

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850610/

Price: £100 Ex Vat (USD converted)

[tonypoll]

Something like the Magajolt sound very promising, and I'd certainly be interested in trying such a solution.
My only concern at this stage is one of installation: How do I attach the toothed wheel and crankshaft sensor, as I don't have access to a workshop? This may be a trivial thing, but I don't want to have to pull out the engine to attach the crankshaft sensor.
Does anyone know how this was done on the Esprit - assuming the Esprit had a toothed wheel & crankshaft senor - and is it possible to copy that installation for an Excel?

[fitz]

Having a quick look, depending on the diameter of the timing belt pullys, it could be possible to tack weld/braise the toothed wheel to the inner face of the topmost pully, and then be able to fabricate a bracket to piggy back of a pully cover mounting, and mount the sensor on that.

However i'm not sure how vibration may effect the sensor, but shurely this could also be an issue if it was secured to the block? - or would any vibration be in sync between the block and pully?

A point to note is it seems the Megajolt requires the sensor to be in an exact location in relation to the gap in the toothed gear ~ 90D from TDC i think...whereas the canems system can be programmed to any sensor location providing you can acuratly measure the angle between the sensor and the gap in the gear.

I must admit i'm tempted by the megajolt too, because it uses very common ford components - which could be sourced cheaply from a scrap yard / ebay, whilst it does appear to have some limitations, ie above, and having to specify TPS or MAP sensor at build time, I don't think that would be an issue for many of us (peter and his mad Cams aside )

[tonypoll]

Just found this Lotus Esprit Megajolt example: http://www.autosportlabs.org/viewtopic.php?t=1774

[tonypoll]

While Googling I found Trigger Wheels at http://trigger-wheels.com/store/index.html, who appear to supply complete Megajolt kits.