Supercharged 6 Speed.

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camyug
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Supercharged 6 Speed.

Post by camyug »

I'm starting up the Supercharged 6 speed project after months of inactivity, though this might be a speradic thread, as I've got a racer taken up most of my spare time.

Plus the Lotus is in the barn, as the racer is taking up all the space in the garage, which means more leg work.

To recap, I'm fitting a Getrag 6 speed from a BMW M3. I've already fitted a Trutrac diff with a 3.4:1 4Runner ring on it.

Starting with an S4s from a Esprit chopped in two by a snow plough.

The engine is from a S4s, crank has been bladed, head is fully gas flowed and waiting for SS extra large exhaust valves. Most of the engine is sold off, didn't need the turbo, ecu, loom etc.


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I can't tell you how good it feels to slide your fingers in here! Everyone walking into the workshop did!

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The crank only needs a little blading to make it aerodynamic, you can take off more material, but then you need to go for lighter pistons and rods.
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I don't like oily bits.

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The parts for Truetrac LSD and 3.4 gear/pinion from 1990 4 Runner:

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Rusty rear crossmember needs replacing.

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The two bellhousings were decked, the old Excel engine's spigot was a perfect match for the Getrag, so square and centered, using gravity, stitched with mig before removing and oven heating before tig welding. Because of the die cast gearbox case, the weld was a bit aero chocolate bar, penetrated fine, just that the zinc levels are quite high and they don't take to welding happily.


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I'm fitting an Opcon blower, running Omex ecu, custom charge cooler with water injection, custom cams.

Ally rads are half done, sat in the workshop.

I'm looking to fit a custom ally flywheel, to run a uprated BMW clutch, since the thrust bearing is flat as opposed to Esprit round front. It makes replacement in somewhere like Kazakhstan easier too!

Later adjustable coilovers and 6 pot brakes.

So to get things going, I've decided to hook up the bare block to the gear box, so I can make up the new gearbox mounting, and machine the gear stick to take an ally handle.

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It doesn't help when you've 'misplaced' the bellhousing bolts!

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The engine crane wont go up enough, so I'll need a hand from a friend to get the eng box in. Once in I can measure up for the new prop.

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That brings me to the first job on the restart, and boy did I not enjoy it. the original M3 stick is too long and is damped with a rubber handle that needs cutting off. Angle grinder and rubber makes a nasty mess, I was covered head to toe in melted goo, I'm still finding bits of black tar in the workshop. for some reason it doesn't set, weeks go by and it's still sticky!

Once I have an idea of box placement I can get the stick threaded.

The great thing about the Getrag is that it has an external shifter rail, so it's easy to cut and shut to a new shifter position.

I welded the old Excel bellhousing to the Getrag, but have found that the Esprit mounting is different, the starter motor has only two bolts, so there's a spare bolt position on the box. It all pulls up tight so I'm not worried.

I'm not plating the eng mounts yet, as one will probably have a bracket welded on for the rear of the Supercharger, that was the way it looked with Eatons offered up.

Well that's about it for now. I'll update maybe this week once the engine and box are in, then maybe another long pause.... What with summer coming up, I'm not sure how much time I'm going to be here, but it'll get done when it gets done!

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Steve C
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Post by Steve C »

The head work looks impressive - was it developed on a flow bench?

camyug
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Post by camyug »

Yes, flow benched, no other way, otherwise it's just sculpture!

I will print the flow bench numbers later, most of the gain was at the low end, the exhaust ports were shocking. Lotus's best head, the 300 sport spec, is rather poor quality. The words 'that'll do' must have been ringing round the factory.

Peter
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Post by Peter »

looks a great project keep us updated, i have to say i've been toying with the idea of some performance upgrades at some point in the future (hopefully not to distant) and a supercharged engine sounds just the ticket, i doubt i'l be able to go to the cost of a esprit engine and gearbox swap so it'l probably be my SE unit running low boost maybe 5 or so psi, which should hopefully give out 220+ and lots of torque, its still on the drawing board at the moment i may jus go the n/a tunning route but given the choice i'd prefer a supercharger because of the low and midrange torque

camyug
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Post by camyug »

The Esprit S4s engine meant that the bottom end was ready to go for supercharging, I did some horse trading, the expensively rebuilt original engine( by the previous owner) went to an early Esprit in Belgium, and with the proceeds I bought the S4s unit, sold the bits I didn't need, so am up on the engine before further mods.

If you stick with the standard unit you are limited, but even with low boost you have that wine to keep you company. Some love it some hate it.

Friend of mine bought a DB7, he drove it home, felt something was very wrong, something he hadn't noticed during the test drive, and called the dealer.

He had no idea superchargers make that noise!

camyug
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Post by camyug »

Have the flow chart for the head, specifically designed for supercharging, the inlets are standard S300 size but ports flowed, the exhaust larger with flow work too. The gains are pretty impressive even from low down, if the head was for normal aspiration then bigger inlet valves needed, with close to 200cfm attainable. When supercharging you don't fit bigger inlet valves.

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camyug
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Post by camyug »

Well, I get back from a lovely holiday in Sicily, all motivated to get the Lotus going again, I've got some free time this week, so in I jump, drop the engine with the Getrag 6 speed on the back into the Excel and.....oh dear.....it doesn't blinkin' fit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:evil: :evil:

I had measured it, checked it and originally thought with some confidence that the Getrag would go, yes tight, but go in it would.

But no, it's too chubby all the way round and interferes enough to stop the prop flange being where it needs to be by about 2 inches!

Even with the heat/sound blanket under the trans tunnel removed, there still wouldn't be enough room.

So now what?

This is beginning to pee me off. I was considering dropping an AJP V8 in, but that causes another set of problems.

I'm now thinking that I'll go back with the standard 5 speed and less supercharging, or go with high comp pistons, rework the head some more and stick some carbs or tb's on. But that's too ordinary and where I started.

Go revs and simple? Or try the scary V8?

I'll have a look at hooking the Toyota box to the AJP. The AJP has a T5 on it that will never fit, it's too long. But if the T5 can handle an AJP on the road and tweeky Cosworths, then maybe the standard Toy box and AJP is another option. The power rating on those boxes in road use can't be that different.

Actually probably best not to think about this for a few days. :roll:

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mds666
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Post by mds666 »

y not leave it supercharged and use the standard box?

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Steve C
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Post by Steve C »

I wonder how much power the standard supra box would handle? .. is the Mk3 Supra box a similar size? Perhaps that is an upgrade ..

There's always a Rover V8 with LT77 / R380 box? There's an Excel / Eclat on ebay at the moment with a JE 4.2 twin plenum v8, spyder chassis, XJS rear ... 280bhp at the wheels ...

camyug
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Post by camyug »

Yep, supercharged is still an option, but there's still alot of nollocks to do to complete, ie custom crank pulley because the supercharger will distort the standard one, supercharger mounts and tensioner etc, charge cooling assembly and more. And it's the most expensive way to get 400 horses.

I'm just getting to the point of wanting it done... quick!.

I went the supercharged route originally because I wanted power, supercharging 'seemed' the easiest way. Rover's are an option, but I can't stand them. Alfa V6 was another, but possibly expensive to get the big numbers. Supercharging isn't an absolute, but a dramatic power plant is!

I discovered the delights of TVR's AJP recently. The advantage of that would be that the engine development would largely be a duplication of my racer. One engine type, two cars. 400 horses like falling off a log!

The 6 speed was part luxury, part necessary to cope with the power, the Getrag 6 is superb bit of kit. My experience of boxes within racing circles is that they grenade alot. But having studied Cerberas on the road, a T5 is adequate, though it wouldn't last 5 mins in my racer because of the shock loads. Maybe I've been too demanding interms of gearbox.

The W58 has a standard rating of 230bhp, the R154 260bhp. The R154 is from 87-92 Supra Turbos is a near identical size shape match to the standard W58. So that's a contender.

W58 top, R154 bottom.

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The R380 has a rating of 380lbs ft torque. Funny that! The Lt77 is useless. I have a friend who uses an R380 in his racer, it coped till he put bomb proof diffs in, then the trans had to take it! He's going sequential now with an Elite box. I'll have to have a measure up on his box.

Some of the crazy turbo crowd in the states that drift their Mk11 Celicas swear the R154 is good for 500bhp. 400bhp is probably more realistic. Since it looks like such a good size match for the original, seems the smart joice.

It's been a year since I started this.!! :roll: I want my Excel on the road!

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mds666
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Post by mds666 »

the sequential elite box is rubbish and wont fit without alot of work to ur chasis with a grinder... (the linkage housing sits too high). i had a look at the quafe sequential at the autosport show and managed to brake/jam the linkage so moved away in a hurry... not too mention its a silly price

is the R154 6 speed? what are the ratios like?

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bash
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Post by bash »

Have a look at this site www.lextreme.com The transmission side will tell you everything you need to know about Toyota transmissions. As an aside, the V8 forum will tell you how to fit a Lexux V8 in as well ( 250 reliable horses for over 200,000 miles !). All the dimensions for the engine are there and its very similar in size to a Rover V8, and weighs a similar amount ( approx the same as the Lotus unit ). The Rover goes in the Excel cos Im on with putting one in. It would seem that the W58 can take alot more power than its rated at ! After spending some time on this site its tempting to keep my eyes open for written off Lexus. Its a really interesting site. Ps the Lexus can be supercharged reliably apparently !!

Bash
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Pete Boole
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Post by Pete Boole »

Hi Guy

I'm using a Tremec TKO 600 - supposed to handle 600lb/ft - and it definitely fits with some minor modifications to the shifter housing. Having talked to several people with experience using the R154, they all said it was good for the road but weak for the track.

(ps I have an R154 if anyone wants one!)

Pete

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Steve C
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Post by Steve C »

You guys are just greedy .. I'd be happy with another 40 bhp, maybe 60 bhp ... oh sod it, maybe another 100 bhp ... an N/A Esprit V8 engine would be just right ... and it has a red plenum to match ;-)

camyug
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Post by camyug »

Steve, as Carroll Shelby put it, 'too much is just about right'.

I considered the Esprit V8 originally, nearly made an offer on one, 'till I found out how heavy it is. All these multi valve V8's are heavy, and no good in a front engine car.

Pete, what are you going to do to brace the car once all that twist has its way?

With the AJP I'd have to put the engine mounts on the front subframe, I was wondering how important the engine is in bracing the chassis across? Might need a plate with mounts across the bell as in drag cars.

I'll have the R154 thanks, where are you? Can you stick it on a pallet? Or how about Goodwood?

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