do i have bits missing from my brakes?

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shaunw
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do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by shaunw »

Dave at Lotusbits said the same thing. Just check the caliper is free to move and grease it up. He also said check the shims top and bottom plus the 'flat 'W' shaped one behind the pad'.
I've just replaced my front brake calipers and although i've only driven the car up the drive and stood on the brakes, they still feel well below par. My wifes Matiz stops quicker :shock:

The discs are also relatively new, the pads are about 25% worn and the car has goodridge hoses. The servo works and the hose looks in good condition. Having searched the forum I came across the thread above which mentions a flat w shaped shim behind the pad. I dont appear to have any shims on mine apart from the small ones top and bottom that locate the pads. :?

So, do I have bits missing and if I do, could this be the reason for poor brakes?

Regards
Shaun

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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by don.hasi »

Sounds to me that you only have to bleed them properly :)
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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by robertverhey »

Are we talking spongy pedal which improves when pumped? Or just brakes feeling ineffective, with a reasonably solid pedal.

If former, yep, bleeding and check for freedom of pad movement.

If latter, I think you'll find that excels need more pedal pressure than modern cars. Chatted with my registration inspection mechanic about this, when he said "that brake pedal needs a bit of a push to pull it up"..... It's not that there's a lack of ultimate braking power, just that modern cars tend to have more servo assistance than was the norm in the '80s, I gather.

The shims are just to stop rattling and shudder I think....they shouldn't impact the braking power. I don't think I have any fitted

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Lotus-e-Clan
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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Yes shims are anti rattle anti squeal.

If they are bled properly and still feel under powered then the chances are that they are beginning to seize on the sliders.

It takes a lot of cleaning and greasing to get them to slide as new once they have seized ...maybe you should re-visit each caliper and free them off 110%. Once they are totally free to slide you will notice a BIG improvement.

BTW if the brake fluid hasn't been replaced in the last two years then you should do that too.

And go buy some basic std Toyota Celica Supra brake pads from your local motor factor (very cheap) - these have a better initial bite fro road use.
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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by shaunw »

Thanks for that guys. Yes, my understanding was that shims just prevent rattles and squeals. It was a long shot :!:

To answer your question Robert, the pedal feels solid. It feels almost as if the pads dont bite on the disc if you know what I mean. :? I appreciate what people are saying about brakes being more servo assisted these days but I'm sure they should be better than they are.

The calipers are brand new so there is no issue with sticking, although having said that, I've only replaced the front calipers. I've thoroughly bled them so I don't think thats the issue either. The rear calipers appear to be free and the car pulls up in a straight line. They lack initial bite and ultimate stopping power IMO (brakes will not lock up)

I think I'm going to try mintex pads as I don't dont know the origin of the pads on the car at the moment. I'm tempted to change the master cylinder and servo return valve too as they are both 23 years old and probably past their prime.

One other thought, could the dics be glazed? If so can I de-glaze them with some emery paper or something? They've only done about 7k and look like new.

Regards
Shaun

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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Defo change the pads.

I don't know about the Mintex pads but mine have much more bite with the Supra pads (once bedded) compared to the unknown items that were on my car. I guess they were 'performance' items that needed to warm-up which is totally pointless for even fast road work!

Obviously you can recheck the slide on the calipers at same time - even new ones would quickly suffer from the wet weather we had last year.
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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by KevW »

I'd bleed the system again Shaun. I've found my Excel always needs bleeding twice when I've had the brakes to bits.
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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by shaunw »

Thanks Kev & Peter, I'll do both of those things, I want things right before I take it on the track in May 8)

Regards

Shaun

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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by Hawaiis0 »

Can I resurrect this and ask what the out come was, as I have a similar feel of inefficient braking, - but I know I have 2 sticky calipers to start with.
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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by amarshall »

Hawaiis0 wrote:Can I resurrect this and ask what the out come was, as I have a similar feel of inefficient braking, - but I know I have 2 sticky calipers to start with.
Fix them first.
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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Yep listen to Angus - brakes are fine when properly maintained!
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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by shaunw »

My brakes work well now. I still plan to refurbish the rear calipers next winter but with new front calipers and complete replacement of the brake fluid, they are pretty good. Lets put it this way, I didn't notice anyones car braking harder into corners than mine at Croft :twisted:

So yes, calipers will make a big difference, but as mentioned in other posts, make sure you bleed them very thoroughly (total fluid replacement made a difference to mine) and from my experience, give them a bit of time to bed in as well.

Shaun

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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by MrCoolA »

shaunw wrote:My brakes work well now. I still plan to refurbish the rear calipers next winter but with new front calipers and complete replacement of the brake fluid, they are pretty good. Lets put it this way, I didn't notice anyones car braking harder into corners than mine at Croft :twisted:

So yes, calipers will make a big difference, but as mentioned in other posts, make sure you bleed them very thoroughly (total fluid replacement made a difference to mine) and from my experience, give them a bit of time to bed in as well.

Shaun
Shaun

to be honest if you were really braking hard then i think you would have been another one in to the field after a few laps...........
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shaunw
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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by shaunw »

MrCoolA wrote:
shaunw wrote:My brakes work well now. I still plan to refurbish the rear calipers next winter but with new front calipers and complete replacement of the brake fluid, they are pretty good. Lets put it this way, I didn't notice anyones car braking harder into corners than mine at Croft :twisted:

So yes, calipers will make a big difference, but as mentioned in other posts, make sure you bleed them very thoroughly (total fluid replacement made a difference to mine) and from my experience, give them a bit of time to bed in as well.

Shaun
Shaun

to be honest if you were really braking hard then i think you would have been another one in to the field after a few laps...........


C'mon Jerry, you know me better than that, I don't even like driving it in the rain, let alone a muddy field! :wink: Anyway, what I was trying to say was that I didnt find myself in danger of hitting someone up the arse because their brakes worked and mine didn't, luckily I wasnt on the track with 'the big brake kit guys' :lol:

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Re: do i have bits missing from my brakes?

Post by rbgosling »

MrCoolA wrote:
shaunw wrote:My brakes work well now. I still plan to refurbish the rear calipers next winter but with new front calipers and complete replacement of the brake fluid, they are pretty good. Lets put it this way, I didn't notice anyones car braking harder into corners than mine at Croft :twisted:

So yes, calipers will make a big difference, but as mentioned in other posts, make sure you bleed them very thoroughly (total fluid replacement made a difference to mine) and from my experience, give them a bit of time to bed in as well.

Shaun
Shaun

to be honest if you were really braking hard then i think you would have been another one in to the field after a few laps...........
Somehow I knew this conversation couldn't continue for long without mention of my.. ahem... outbraking myself!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

The pads I had on then came from an online supplier (brakes4u), mainly 'cos the postage was much cheaper than SJ Sports Cars or Paul Matty for just that one item. No idea what the brand was. Didn't think it'd matter much with my normal driving. I know better now!! :oops: Money spent on quality pads is money well spent.
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