The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

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MetBlue
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by MetBlue »

When the door opens, it is VERY close to the body before the door leading edge enters the large concave area. - And I mean close. Door is not yet painted, and literally, just the thickness of the paint will mean I have contact :cry: I don't want to move the door back more, as already the gap at front to the body is close to twice the width of the gap at the back, ( but it doesn't look too bad and they are parallel).
EUREKA MOMENT. Struggling to get to sleep last night. Mind wandering everywhere (cars mainly), then realisation dawned, so this mornings Home Schooling is Geometry. Now focus, this isn't easy to put into words
The clearance between door front edge and body as the door opens is dependant on where the hinge pin is in relative terms ( You've got to remember there is much slot adjustment between the beam and the door skin, so the 2 can be moved independently). In short, the further the pin is away from the car body, the more the clearance as the door opens. Think of two extremes ( both impossible but it helps see the reasoning).
Worst extreme : If the hinge pin was hard up against the body shell, the radius to the door front edge would be much greater and it would track a wider arc as door opens. Result - Very quick contact with rear of front wing.
Best extreme : If you could bring the pin out to a position coincident with the door skin, not only is the radius smaller, but the swing arc moves immediately away from the rear of the front wing and impossible to have interference.
So, if you think in plan view, the smaller the angle created between a line created by the hinge pin and the door front edge, to the line of the outside door skin, the better. In the worse case above its probably about 30 degrees, In the best case it would be 0 degrees.
This also explains why SJ sell 4mm thick hinge plate shims :!: :!: Firstly 4mm isn't a shim in my book, it's a spacer, but that aside, it lets you do what I describe above. I never understood until now why they made such a large spacer, as the adjustment between beam and door skin allowed the same adjustment. Now I understand.
Of course, bringing the beam so far "out" will require similar thickness spacers between the window frame to beam if you want to stay dry and still hear the radio.
Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

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Hawaiis0
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by Hawaiis0 »

I think we called it Swept wing growth :D

Stu
Umm! What to do next?

Pete Boole
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by Pete Boole »

I get it Tony. I like this sort of thinking! I'll look at mine when I finally come to fit them. Thanks.

Pete

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MetBlue
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by MetBlue »

Hooray. Finally the "make it shiney" fairy has delivered and I've got all my bits back ready to finally finish those pesky doors.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Image

Quick update on that hinge position. Did temporary build with 4 to 5mm behind both top AND bottom hinge. Would have to make some significant slot adjustment to top door skin slots to keep this much shimming, but bottom adjustment is fine. But it was still mighty close to the recess at the leading edge :roll: :roll: :roll:
Will be doing the fibre glass work then building with 4mm behind lower hinge and minimal behind top next time.
Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

Pete Boole
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by Pete Boole »

I love it when the shiny fairy comes!! :D

Pete

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MetBlue
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by MetBlue »

In resto world, some days are good, and some days are REALLY bad ( you're not allowed REALLY good days in my experience). Well the couple of days have been certainly at the good end of the spectrum.

Removed the door skin and beam again and rebuilt with 4 mm plate behind bottom hinge and nothing at top. Inevitably, the 4 mm plate creates some stresses in the hinge assembly when bolted to the car ( you'd need a tapered plate and small taper at top hinge to avoid totally), but I can't see it doing any harm. Fitted and aligned door skin ( without window frame at this point) all without fuss. Carefully closed door and HOORAY, over 0.5 mm clearance at the front trouble point. :D :D

Without door seal in place, from inside the car it's possible to measure with a depth vernier from the seal flange to the door face ( The area the door seal fills).
Door skin at top of B post 10 mm
Just before radius starts 14 mm
end of radius (Horizontal starts) 22 mm
Start of new Ali angle 15 mm ( Ali temporarily fitted to eliminate gap under door)
Front end of Ali angle 14 mm ( Without angle, would have been 25mm at the centre of the door !!)
A post vertical 20 mm
Top of A post 11 mm
The new seal stands 19 - 20 mm proud of the web it clips onto, so I now know where to fill the door to get a nice "nip" on the seal of between 6 and 10 mm.

Could this luck last? Lets try the window frame.
Even when bolted directly to beam with no shimming, I had a gap of between 7 mm at it's tightest ( ironically at top of B post, where most people seem to struggle to close) and 16 mm at widest ( along the A post).
One shim later and I've pretty much got 8 - 12 mm all around - Well happy with that :lol: :lol: :lol:

At this point, I've not tried assembly with the glass and checking the electric window works. It's all got to come apart again to paint the 4 mm plate and fill the door lower edge. A functioning window will have to wait until the last build up.

So why can I not report my first REALLY good day ? Well I tried to fit the door card, and I just can not get it to fit at the A post top end. The door seal, the window frame, the door card and particularly the chrome trim on the top of the door card all want to occupy the same space :roll: - Oh well, that's Lotus.

This is all on the drivers door. Not even looked at the other side yet but I'm learning a lot, so it should be easier ( or not as the case may be).
Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

Pete Boole
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by Pete Boole »

At least you'll be really good at fitting doors after all this!!

Pete

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MetBlue
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by MetBlue »

So, the interference fit problem was solved by increasing the spacer between the inner door skin and the window frame at the A post. It needs a 5 mm spacer, which is almost certainly a consequence of the 4 mm plate behind the lower hinge ( for drivers door, twists the beam anti-clockwise when viewed from rear, hence moving window frame closer to car, but door skin in same place as would be without the 4 mm spacer (cos it takes it's position independently from the body lines)). Spacer, but not the M6 radial thro bolt, can be seen in following photo.
Image
Now it's full steam ahead on building the door bottom edge up. 1/2Kg of filler gone in so far, and still more to add :!: :!: :!: . Plus of course the Ali angle bar that forms the main bottom run.
This door gets heavier by the day.
Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

Pete Boole
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by Pete Boole »

I've got a feeling that that bracket was deleted on later frame versions. It's the fixing that's always cracked because it fits so poorly.

Pete

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MetBlue
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by MetBlue »

It was present on the later frame I have with shorter legs, but I think you may be right.
Another consequence of the 4 mm plate is that the very bottom bolt on the front is never going to align, but this fixing was definitely missing on later frames, so i won't be worrying about it. I can still use the bottom most fixing on the rear leg, even though this one was also deleted later in the model evolution.
Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

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MetBlue
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by MetBlue »

Off side door still WIP, but had a trial build of Near side door today.
Below photograph from inside car, looking down. The white line you see is the garage floor, so both door fits are the same. Best part of a 5 mm gap between door inner panel and rubber door seal, running the full length of the door :!: :!: :!: - Maybe its a design feature !! They knew the windscreen was never going to seal so this is part of the flood control measures :lol: :lol:
Image

Back to the off side door, a couple of pictures of the solution to this problem. : 1 metre long aluminium angle running full length, and a ton of filler at each end to blend in going about half way up the door. Very pleased with how its gone. Should look good when primed and painted Satin Black.

Image

Image


Just waiting for a new tub of filler now, cos I used it all up on the drivers door :D :D
Tony
( no idea why that second photo wants to go portrait. I've tried several times :roll: )
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MetBlue
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by MetBlue »

Doors, Doors Doors. Don't you just love 'em.
Making good progress though. Two down , one to do. :!:
Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

Lotus520
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by Lotus520 »

Keep at it fella..... you will get there🍻

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Alan_M
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by Alan_M »

MetBlue wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 15:15
Doors, Doors Doors. Don't you just love 'em.
Making good progress though. Two down , one to do. :!:
Tony
3 doored Elite ? Are you doing a spare one?

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MetBlue
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Re: The longest Elite Resto ? - probably

Post by MetBlue »

3 doored Elite ? Are you doing a spare one?
Not a spare. My experience is that spares could not be done for these early cars. Each door needs custom fitting to it's aperture.

You took the bait though Alan. Watch this space :) :) Yesterday morning it was still only 2 doors to do !! Well, technically, maybe it could be called a spare.
Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

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