Value your Excel if you dare!
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- Hawaiis0
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- Location: West Oxfordshire
Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
Nothing is fool proof. Fools are clever!
- fueltheburn
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- Model: SE
- Colour: Suzuki Yellow
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- Location: Ellon, Aberdeenshire
Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
The subject is very fickle. It depends who is looking for what?
The classic car market often places originality over structural or mechanical integrity. I.e a numbers matching car with low mileage but is likely to have perished everything underneath as it doesn't move is worth more than an example with zero issues, high mileage and a brand new engine, clutch but is used regularly.
I have a pretty firm grasp of the Excel and Eclat market having bought, sold, bartered and traded in excess of 11 cars.
I can assure you that the values spouted in the magazines are off, as they are now the values you would have expected about 12-18 months ago.
Projects below £2000 now are nigh on impossible to find as the sum of their parts is roughly 3 times this as a breaker. See below of the ones I remember.
Black narrow body, supra wheels. Complete. Breaker sold for £750 4 years ago.
The pick-up I bought from John as a full car and bartered to Brian many years. At the time was peanuts but with work will become something very different and you only need one person to like it.
Lola - Bought back and sold by me twice. Value of this vehicle does not represent its true value. It is a great driver and mechanically I put in a lot of effort into this before it was sold onto a vintage bike dealer. Probably worth about 3 times what I sold it for about 3+ years ago.
Brians V8 - part of a swap. I bought it not running well with a 3.5 V8. Put in effort to get it up to scratch and running, then swapped in a deal and has now undergone a full resto and serious upgrade during refit. SUBSTANTIALLY more than it was when I sold it. Unlikely to be ever be sold. More likely to be passed down.
The black very early narrow body sat in my yard as it stands in non-running condition without carbs, broken windscreen is circa £2k and continues to go up in value as rarity puts this down as one of 10 or 11 early narrow bodies with iron cross wheel left in existence
The steel blue one (Mildred) sat in the workshop without an engine, 67K on the clock, good interior, good paint is about £3.5k to 4k but a bit of work would make this a £10k car easily.
SE sold to Belgium, bought in 2014 for £1250, run as a daily for a while, sorted a few things out. Original but with high mileage. Great driver. Sold for £2500 in 2016. Likely to be circa £7-8K now.
Blue narrow body, no interior, engine in parts, fresh paint. £2500 18 months ago. Now in a historic racing series in Scotland.
P.Boole special - To me priceless, it was saving a bit of club history before it was stripped too far beyond repair. No engine, no gearbox, no drive train, no interior. Essentially a blank canvas. Once I have finished, it will be pushing out a substantial amount of power and will benefit from the lessons and experience I have learnt elsewhere. Likely to be a marmite car - either love it or hate it. Again, it only needs to appeal to the right person for it to be valuable. Likely to be a lifetime vehicle once complete.
Ethel - 90-95% changed. Only original items left are body, chassis, rear and side windows. A one off with well over 3500 hours into it and counting. If I charged for my time on this one it would be huge. Realistically probably somewhere around £40k would buy it once I have ironed out the last details. It likely offends the whole idea of a classic for many but you get a classic car with the performance of a modern exige...why not?
My personal values on classics are different to those whose opinions are that the manufacturers must be right as they seem to think that an ancient ignition system that regularly sits you on the side of the road is the way things should be because it left the factory that way.
Manufacturers build to a budget.
No way - My preference is for reliability, performance, efficiency and user friendliness.
The classic car market often places originality over structural or mechanical integrity. I.e a numbers matching car with low mileage but is likely to have perished everything underneath as it doesn't move is worth more than an example with zero issues, high mileage and a brand new engine, clutch but is used regularly.
I have a pretty firm grasp of the Excel and Eclat market having bought, sold, bartered and traded in excess of 11 cars.
I can assure you that the values spouted in the magazines are off, as they are now the values you would have expected about 12-18 months ago.
Projects below £2000 now are nigh on impossible to find as the sum of their parts is roughly 3 times this as a breaker. See below of the ones I remember.
Black narrow body, supra wheels. Complete. Breaker sold for £750 4 years ago.
The pick-up I bought from John as a full car and bartered to Brian many years. At the time was peanuts but with work will become something very different and you only need one person to like it.
Lola - Bought back and sold by me twice. Value of this vehicle does not represent its true value. It is a great driver and mechanically I put in a lot of effort into this before it was sold onto a vintage bike dealer. Probably worth about 3 times what I sold it for about 3+ years ago.
Brians V8 - part of a swap. I bought it not running well with a 3.5 V8. Put in effort to get it up to scratch and running, then swapped in a deal and has now undergone a full resto and serious upgrade during refit. SUBSTANTIALLY more than it was when I sold it. Unlikely to be ever be sold. More likely to be passed down.
The black very early narrow body sat in my yard as it stands in non-running condition without carbs, broken windscreen is circa £2k and continues to go up in value as rarity puts this down as one of 10 or 11 early narrow bodies with iron cross wheel left in existence
The steel blue one (Mildred) sat in the workshop without an engine, 67K on the clock, good interior, good paint is about £3.5k to 4k but a bit of work would make this a £10k car easily.
SE sold to Belgium, bought in 2014 for £1250, run as a daily for a while, sorted a few things out. Original but with high mileage. Great driver. Sold for £2500 in 2016. Likely to be circa £7-8K now.
Blue narrow body, no interior, engine in parts, fresh paint. £2500 18 months ago. Now in a historic racing series in Scotland.
P.Boole special - To me priceless, it was saving a bit of club history before it was stripped too far beyond repair. No engine, no gearbox, no drive train, no interior. Essentially a blank canvas. Once I have finished, it will be pushing out a substantial amount of power and will benefit from the lessons and experience I have learnt elsewhere. Likely to be a marmite car - either love it or hate it. Again, it only needs to appeal to the right person for it to be valuable. Likely to be a lifetime vehicle once complete.
Ethel - 90-95% changed. Only original items left are body, chassis, rear and side windows. A one off with well over 3500 hours into it and counting. If I charged for my time on this one it would be huge. Realistically probably somewhere around £40k would buy it once I have ironed out the last details. It likely offends the whole idea of a classic for many but you get a classic car with the performance of a modern exige...why not?
My personal values on classics are different to those whose opinions are that the manufacturers must be right as they seem to think that an ancient ignition system that regularly sits you on the side of the road is the way things should be because it left the factory that way.
Manufacturers build to a budget.
No way - My preference is for reliability, performance, efficiency and user friendliness.
-
- Verified Poster
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
My thoughts for what it may add to the argument is based on the principle that anything is only worth what someone will pay for it!
I am new to excel ownership but not Lotus and was looking over the summer for a daily driver (noting I have a spare option for the inevitable days when electrical gremlins or minor issues throw a spanner in the works)
My criteria and hence value prepared to pay was based on (in descending order);
- good general condition
- preferably late model SE
- Originality (not matching numbers but correct components, engine, wheels etc)
- Full Leather
- everything else up for review
I was not hung up on colour and was prepared to travel as far as necessary, I was prepared to pay up to £12k, I looked at a few and I happened across an advert near Northampton. - 89 SE in black with full leather, well looked after, 37k miles and owner a pleasure to deal with.
This one ticked most of the boxes, didn't have Air con but as above, not one of my key criteria (may regret this next summer) and I paid the full asking price - cost me just shy of £9k but I would have paid more - probably up to my full budget.
Hope this helps as a 'buyer' not a seller - pictures on New Member - West Mids if anyone interested.
I am new to excel ownership but not Lotus and was looking over the summer for a daily driver (noting I have a spare option for the inevitable days when electrical gremlins or minor issues throw a spanner in the works)
My criteria and hence value prepared to pay was based on (in descending order);
- good general condition
- preferably late model SE
- Originality (not matching numbers but correct components, engine, wheels etc)
- Full Leather
- everything else up for review
I was not hung up on colour and was prepared to travel as far as necessary, I was prepared to pay up to £12k, I looked at a few and I happened across an advert near Northampton. - 89 SE in black with full leather, well looked after, 37k miles and owner a pleasure to deal with.
This one ticked most of the boxes, didn't have Air con but as above, not one of my key criteria (may regret this next summer) and I paid the full asking price - cost me just shy of £9k but I would have paid more - probably up to my full budget.
Hope this helps as a 'buyer' not a seller - pictures on New Member - West Mids if anyone interested.
Adrian
Excel SE, Elise S1, Europa TwinCam & 110 Bike!
Excel SE, Elise S1, Europa TwinCam & 110 Bike!
- bash
- Senior Poster
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
Surprised more people arnt up for this, especially as it may help the value of thier car.
Bash
Bash
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
- Hawaiis0
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- Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 18:39
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
I think any tidy road worthy Excel is worth a minimum £10000. Restored beauties or British Racing Green models should demand £15000+.
A little extra provenance may help raise the price as well.
Are we in danger of surreptitiously under cutting insurance valuations which would prevent recovery should the horrible happen?
Comparing this previous Classic Car Buyer extract with current sale prices shows some divide in their valuations
Listed as : Eclat Excel, Excel SE/SA
Con 1 : 1st Class, well cared for (Not Concours) = £8000
(Esprit S3 = £12,500)........ Selling at £23000
Based on extrapolation a well cared for Excel should be £14-15,000. And I think that's a fair target.
A little extra provenance may help raise the price as well.
Are we in danger of surreptitiously under cutting insurance valuations which would prevent recovery should the horrible happen?
Comparing this previous Classic Car Buyer extract with current sale prices shows some divide in their valuations
Listed as : Eclat Excel, Excel SE/SA
Con 1 : 1st Class, well cared for (Not Concours) = £8000
(Esprit S3 = £12,500)........ Selling at £23000
Based on extrapolation a well cared for Excel should be £14-15,000. And I think that's a fair target.
Nothing is fool proof. Fools are clever!
- Lotus-e-Clan
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
Well lets reach a consensus that won't harm insurance values.
If the majority of Excel owners are members of his forum it shouldn't be too difficult to ask realistic values and stick rigidly to them.
A hybrid Esprit S3/X180 value set would be a good start:
Con1 (S3)= £12.5K
Con2 (S3) = £9K
Con3 (X180) = £4K
OK 'The Market' sets values and we are 50% of that with one distinct advantage: - we have the cars.
The other 50% just have money ...and no Excel!
If the majority of Excel owners are members of his forum it shouldn't be too difficult to ask realistic values and stick rigidly to them.
A hybrid Esprit S3/X180 value set would be a good start:
Con1 (S3)= £12.5K
Con2 (S3) = £9K
Con3 (X180) = £4K
OK 'The Market' sets values and we are 50% of that with one distinct advantage: - we have the cars.
The other 50% just have money ...and no Excel!
Peter K
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
I have always found the Hagerty Insurance Classic Car Valuation tool useful. Had a look this morning and see that only the Eclat is listed up to 1985. I would think that the transition to Eclat Excel will be covered by years 83-85. If that is the case then:-
Years 1984/85
Fair £4800.00
Good £6800.00
Excellent £9100.00
Concours £12100.00
Perhaps a useful starting point? Maybe adding 5% for each subsequent year might be reasonable?
Years 1984/85
Fair £4800.00
Good £6800.00
Excellent £9100.00
Concours £12100.00
Perhaps a useful starting point? Maybe adding 5% for each subsequent year might be reasonable?
- bash
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
- Qwertyco
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
Would my '83 be in this 'very early' catagory, (except for the condition of course)?fueltheburn wrote: . . . . The black very early narrow body sat in my yard as it stands in non-running condition without carbs, broken windscreen is circa £2k and continues to go up in value as rarity puts this down as one of 10 or 11 early narrow bodies with iron cross wheel left in existence . . . . .
I think the VIN plate puts it at about No.209 off the production line (based on the VIN of the prototype Excel).
I've never really thought of putting a value on it.
It's pretty much original apart from some paintwork, and a like for like engine replacement, and I still have the original in my shed.
I added the rear spoiler in around 1993, about when this pic was taken
"Life is like a Dancing Monkey, - Pretty amusing, until it starts to lob faeces at you"
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
The car I bought 16 years ago for £4750 is now probably worth at least £10000. Although I have never been reluctant to spend money on keeping it in good shape, its higher value now means it makes more financial sense to do so. If other owners feel similarly, the cars that are left must now have a better chance of survival.
- chrisw2811
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
Club Lotus valuation of mine is £9500, which is more than I expected but I assume reflects some of its history and potentially limited opportunities to find a replacement. I have 2 daughters, both very keen for the family (i.e. them) to keep it forever.
1986 Excel SE, 1985 FJ1100, 2012 Passat TDI Estate, 2012 Golf TSi, 2010 Mini R56, 1985 Yamaha Salient 1964 Raleigh Runabout 1960 Motobecane 1979 Honda NC50 , '02 Montesa 315R
Well, if I was right all the time I'd get to be predictable!
Well, if I was right all the time I'd get to be predictable!
- Lotus-e-Clan
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
Keep posting folks.
A positive picture is clearly building from these valuations.
If values were not openly discussed then you'd probably believe that your Excel was not worth much more than you paid....and most folk on here 'got in early' so definitely need a mind-shift/reset away from self-loathing/worthlessness and need encouragement/confidence to step away from a luckless existence!
The only way is up (and I believe folk posting on here are still firmly grounded and realistic in their assessments)
A positive picture is clearly building from these valuations.
If values were not openly discussed then you'd probably believe that your Excel was not worth much more than you paid....and most folk on here 'got in early' so definitely need a mind-shift/reset away from self-loathing/worthlessness and need encouragement/confidence to step away from a luckless existence!
The only way is up (and I believe folk posting on here are still firmly grounded and realistic in their assessments)
Peter K
- fueltheburn
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
Yup by the looks of what I can see.Qwertyco wrote:Would my '83 be in this 'very early' catagory, (except for the condition of course)?fueltheburn wrote: . . . . The black very early narrow body sat in my yard as it stands in non-running condition without carbs, broken windscreen is circa £2k and continues to go up in value as rarity puts this down as one of 10 or 11 early narrow bodies with iron cross wheel left in existence . . . . .
I think the VIN plate puts it at about No.209 off the production line (based on the VIN of the prototype Excel).
I've never really thought of putting a value on it.
It's pretty much original apart from some paintwork, and a like for like engine replacement, and I still have the original in my shed.
I added the rear spoiler in around 1993, about when this pic was taken
Of those 10 or 11 I have seen most of them.
Iron cross wheels, no rear spoiler, goldflake and platinum colour bumpers and lower sill, no vents in bonnet(flat and no holes) are the main indicators. Concertina wing mirrors in the quarterlight.
Mine has Eclat written on the bonnet and boot. Excel only appears on the rear quarters where the double pin striping finishes.
The other indication is the early seats look exactly like the Eclat and elite ones.
These cars only were built for 1982 to 1983 just after Eclat production finished and before the Supra Wheel narrow body turned up in 1984.
2 dark reds.
3 calypso reds (one is Brian's First proto, the second is another proto and PJRs one with the straight pipes at the rear)
1 Essex blue. (Jeff)
1 Essex blue running in historic racing (body coloured bumpers). ( Sold by me to Craig)
1 black (Mine)
1 white (Yours)
These are the ones I know of. Consider yourself privileged
- Qwertyco
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
Yup, it ticks all those boxes, except the rear badges, which were lost after a bit of paintwork was done to the rear in the '90s.fueltheburn wrote:Qwertyco wrote:fueltheburn wrote: . . . .Of those 10 or 11 I have seen most of them.
Iron cross wheels, no rear spoiler, goldflake and platinum colour bumpers and lower sill, no vents in bonnet(flat and no holes) are the main indicators. Concertina wing mirrors in the quarterlight.
Mine has Eclat written on the bonnet and boot. Excel only appears on the rear quarters where the double pin striping finishes.
The other indication is the early seats look exactly like the Eclat and elite ones.
These cars only were built for 1982 to 1983 just after Eclat production finished and before the Supra Wheel narrow body turned up in 1984.
. . . . . Consider yourself privileged
Logbook has it as an Eclat Excel.
I've always felt very privileged to own and drive it, It was my 26th birthday present - to me, from me!
"Life is like a Dancing Monkey, - Pretty amusing, until it starts to lob faeces at you"
- wrxseeker
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Re: Value your Excel if you dare!
To be fair, to me it seems the all the narrow body cars (including mine !! ) are fairly rare !fueltheburn wrote:Yup by the looks of what I can see.Qwertyco wrote:Would my '83 be in this 'very early' catagory, (except for the condition of course)?fueltheburn wrote: . . . . The black very early narrow body sat in my yard as it stands in non-running condition without carbs, broken windscreen is circa £2k and continues to go up in value as rarity puts this down as one of 10 or 11 early narrow bodies with iron cross wheel left in existence . . . . .
I think the VIN plate puts it at about No.209 off the production line (based on the VIN of the prototype Excel).
I've never really thought of putting a value on it.
It's pretty much original apart from some paintwork, and a like for like engine replacement, and I still have the original in my shed.
I added the rear spoiler in around 1993, about when this pic was taken
Of those 10 or 11 I have seen most of them.
Iron cross wheels, no rear spoiler, goldflake and platinum colour bumpers and lower sill, no vents in bonnet(flat and no holes) are the main indicators. Concertina wing mirrors in the quarterlight.
Mine has Eclat written on the bonnet and boot. Excel only appears on the rear quarters where the double pin striping finishes.
The other indication is the early seats look exactly like the Eclat and elite ones.
These cars only were built for 1982 to 1983 just after Eclat production finished and before the Supra Wheel narrow body turned up in 1984.
2 dark reds.
3 calypso reds (one is Brian's First proto, the second is another proto and PJRs one with the straight pipes at the rear)
1 Essex blue. (Jeff)
1 Essex blue running in historic racing (body coloured bumpers). ( Sold by me to Craig)
1 black (Mine)
1 white (Yours)
These are the ones I know of. Consider yourself privileged
I had no problem getting a conservative insurance guarenteed valuation of £8000 on mine from Classicline.
Darren