Representing the third generation….

General Elite, Eclat and Excel discussions.

Moderator: Board Moderators

User avatar
bash
Senior Poster
Posts: 2210
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 15:34
Model: Se, V8
Colour: white
Year: 1986
Location: Doncaster
Contact:

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by bash »

Calm down guys. My views are clear on what I think about facebook, and that I wasnt in favour of it. I was a little saddened to read that its now thought to be the home of the club. I also wasnt really in favour of the grand tourers title either. I agree that there are many outlets for Esprits, they made 6 times more of them than Excels, and Im a fan of them as a car. I also didnt think they would not be a good fit in this arena. But Im beginning to see a pattern here for me in that Im opposed to change and yet in my ex job I was a supporter of change. So, maybe we will see what happens in the long run.
I really appreciate the people who run the club and I really appreciate the members who make it the enjoyable informative club that it is. I wouldn't want to see anyone get so wound up that we lose people. Hopefully this will not end up as a Judean peoples front incident. We have already had one of those on facebook !
Bash
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

richardw
Moderator
Posts: 2224
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 15:06
Model: Elite S2.2 Automatic
Colour: Essex Blue
Year: 1981
Location: Worcestershire

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by richardw »

Just as a quick comment Bash, a large proportion of our calendar sales were from Facebook members last year, and this is a big chunk of our revenue. I am no great supporter of social media, and only use Facebook for the club, but more people are using it these days and so just relying on lotusexcel.net for revenue that pays for club insurance, events etc would be quite difficult.

I think for anybody that doesn’t use Facebook, any changes will be almost invisible.

Cheers, Richard
Image

User avatar
bash
Senior Poster
Posts: 2210
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 15:34
Model: Se, V8
Colour: white
Year: 1986
Location: Doncaster
Contact:

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by bash »

I hear what you are saying. This is why I would be no good as an administrator, too set in my ways.
Bash
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

User avatar
Lotus-e-Clan
Senior Poster
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 13:25
Model: Excel SE - EWP/Waterless!
Colour: Not Blue or Green
Year: 1989
Location: Swaledale

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

bash wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 23:27
Calm down guys. My views are clear on what I think about facebook, and that I wasnt in favour of it. I was a little saddened to read that its now thought to be the home of the club. I also wasnt really in favour of the grand tourers title either. I agree that there are many outlets for Esprits, they made 6 times more of them than Excels, and Im a fan of them as a car. I also didnt think they would not be a good fit in this arena. But Im beginning to see a pattern here for me in that Im opposed to change and yet in my ex job I was a supporter of change. So, maybe we will see what happens in the long run.
I really appreciate the people who run the club and I really appreciate the members who make it the enjoyable informative club that it is. I wouldn't want to see anyone get so wound up that we lose people. Hopefully this will not end up as a Judean peoples front incident. We have already had one of those on facebook !
Bash
What Bash said 110% - but with a 10% caveat (see below).
richardw wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 23:51
Just as a quick comment Bash, a large proportion of our calendar sales were from Facebook members last year, and this is a big chunk of our revenue. I am no great supporter of social media, and only use Facebook for the club, but more people are using it these days and so just relying on lotusexcel.net for revenue that pays for club insurance, events etc would be quite difficult.

I think for anybody that doesn’t use Facebook, any changes will be almost invisible.

Cheers, Richard
Regarding the Forum spawning a Club. I was against this, as early as the Angus era, when he nudged the forum purpose in that direction. As soon as money (even though there are no formal subscriptions), regalia, parts, insurance, committee meetings and the virtue of volunteer attendees become important, discontent sets in. Some of us have witnessed the same club blueprint marring relationships or even destroying car clubs.

The 10% caveat pertaining to Bash's post is the benefit of the role of FaceBook as the pubic-face of the spawned club...at least it limits the clubbie stuff on here. :wink: But re: 3rd Generation Lotus, I don't so much object to the idea of completely isolated Esprit technical sections appearing on the forum.

I will get a kicking for writing this, I'm sure. I know, many know, that I'm not a socialite. In fact, the only Excel owners to ever see my face with name attached, is Angus and MrCoolA, and they didn't like it much ... :lol:
Peter K

User avatar
bash
Senior Poster
Posts: 2210
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 15:34
Model: Se, V8
Colour: white
Year: 1986
Location: Doncaster
Contact:

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by bash »

Mmmm, I just spoilt my copybook by having a look at the facebook page, the split of opinions seems to be similar to here. Interesting !
Bash
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

richardw
Moderator
Posts: 2224
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 15:06
Model: Elite S2.2 Automatic
Colour: Essex Blue
Year: 1981
Location: Worcestershire

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by richardw »

Trevor Knowles just posted this on FB:

Quote from Martin Buckley in his deals on wheels column in this month’s Classic and Sports Car magazine when writing about the NEC Classic Car Motor Show, “The folks on the Lotus Elite/Eclat/Excel stand cheered me up about my latest Elite.”

OK he didn’t get the new club name but then it wasn’t promoted very strongly, but I think it shows the value in being a club as well as having this excellent forum!
Image

User avatar
Hawaiis0
Senior Poster
Posts: 4130
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 18:39
Model: Excel SA (No 3); Elite 504
Colour: BRG; Dirty White
Year: 1986
Location: West Oxfordshire

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by Hawaiis0 »

All revealing Ripon Racecourse lycra is what i didnt like... :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nothing is fool proof. Fools are clever!

User avatar
Lotus-e-Clan
Senior Poster
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 13:25
Model: Excel SE - EWP/Waterless!
Colour: Not Blue or Green
Year: 1989
Location: Swaledale

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Hawaiis0 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 13:28
All revealing Ripon Racecourse lycra is what i didnt like... :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh yes you've seen me too. :lol:
Peter K

User avatar
bash
Senior Poster
Posts: 2210
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 15:34
Model: Se, V8
Colour: white
Year: 1986
Location: Doncaster
Contact:

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by bash »

Having had a scroll through the facebook pages I was under the impression that many questions would be answered by referring people to post links on here thus enhancing the information and members here but I can see little evidence of that. Can I ask how much traffic there is on this site, is it starting to give an impression of a dead parrot for instance because of facebook and ultimately am I wasting my time doing posts on here. Facebook appears to be like asking questions to someone who has Alzheimer's in that its a question that has been recently asked. Sorry to be so negative and a stick in the mud but after being on here for umpteen years being told that the focus is now on facebook as the heart of the club was disheartening to say the least.
Just wondering on stats.
Bash
Ps, I wont be posting anything on facebook, I looked out of curiosity.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

User avatar
Lotus-e-Clan
Senior Poster
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 13:25
Model: Excel SE - EWP/Waterless!
Colour: Not Blue or Green
Year: 1989
Location: Swaledale

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Same thing happened to the Imp Club Forum. FB gained traction and the forum is now a ghost-town.

The common denominator is that it's too hard to post photos on the forum and dead easy to do it on FB. Also, there are no 'forum rules' on facebook and trading parts (with pictures) is MUCH easier on FB, plus it reaches a much bigger audience that includes both club members and non-members.

The downside for the Imp Club is that the brains/creators of forum content left the forum and stopped paying club subs because they have free-access to FB which provides a larger, more lively, more youthful community. Some forum content creators, including non-FB users like me, stopped posting content on the forum (dwindling audience), AND stopped paying subs. New Imp owners never go near the club forum and don't join the club as they can arrange car meetings via FB. And who needs a club mag these days (the Imp Club mag is one of the best, mind you) ?

The Imp Club committee are now on an email charm-offensive to get ex-contributors back onto the forum. I've lost all momentum and won't be going back.

Luckily, the Excel forum rejected the idea of formal club subs and maybe the current informal, opportunistic format for generating income on FB is all that's required to keep the social contingent of the 'club' happy?
Peter K

User avatar
rbgosling
Senior Poster
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 22:55
Model: Lotus Excel SE
Colour: Midnight Blue
Year: 1990
Location: Rugby

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by rbgosling »

I find the Facebook page and the Forum serve different purposes. Anything technical, anything that would be useful for someone to look at in the future, goes in the forum. If it's really useful/interesting/important I might put a FB post directing to the Forum, although I don't think I've done that yet. FB is better for ephemeral stuff, chat, pictures of places I've gone and things I've done, that is interesting and social but has little importance to posterity (such as my rant at the @R$£ that knocked off my wing mirror a few days ago).

As for other people posting technical questions, yes, I agree with the "Alzheimer's" comment, very wry. Basic questions ("where can I buy a such-and-such") I'll answer direct, but otherwise I would generally point them to the Forum - and from a couple of other Excel FB sites (the Popular Front of Judea) that I lurk on.

Image

But Peter makes a good point about photos - I think it is very true that it is much easier to post a question, and often an answer, on FB, due to the photos issue. I understand the reasons, but that doesn't change the outcome that posting a question with pictures is a bit of a PITA, and nearly impossible with a mobile.

But these are all repeats of things that have been said before. As for the Esprit (back onto topic), I'm happy to share a bit of space with them - they are fantastic cars, the car that I dreamed of driving as a child, and they have much in common with the 4-seaters. We'll have to see how much Esprit talk appears, but I'd be surprised if it becomes dominant as there are already other venues that serve them.
"Farmer" Richard

1990 Lotus Excel SE (Lilith)
2022 MG MG5 EV (not due to be a classic for quite a few years...)
2011 Nissan Leaf (Ragly - EV pioneer, must be due to be a classic one day)

User avatar
MetBlue
Senior Poster
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 21:00
Model: Elite 74 & Excel 92 (SEish))
Colour: Metalic Blue
Year: 1974
Location: Northampton

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by MetBlue »

Same thing happened to the Imp Club Forum. FB gained traction and the forum is now a ghost-town.

The common denominator is that it's too hard to post photos on the forum and dead easy to do it on FB. Also, there are no 'forum rules' on facebook and trading parts (with pictures) is MUCH easier on FB, plus it reaches a much bigger audience that includes both club members and non-members.

The downside for the Imp Club is that the brains/creators of forum content left the forum and stopped paying club subs because they have free-access to FB which provides a larger, more lively, more youthful community. Some forum content creators, including non-FB users like me, stopped posting content on the forum (dwindling audience), AND stopped paying subs. New Imp owners never go near the club forum and don't join the club as they can arrange car meetings via FB. And who needs a club mag these days (the Imp Club mag is one of the best, mind you) ?

The Imp Club committee are now on an email charm-offensive to get ex-contributors back onto the forum. I've lost all momentum and won't be going back.
Wise words of warning Peter. Couldn't agree more and we must ensure same doesn't become of this site.

I've taken a gander around FB and it was every bit as worrying as I feared. Repetitive drivel and "he's another picture of my car in a field". Was clear there are many people there who don't come here which is a crying shame, but it ain't for me and I won't be posting anything on it. As Richard says, all we can hope for now is those with the answers refrain from answering tech questions in FB and refer them to here ( with links if at all possible and it aint too much trouble). Agreed Pictures are a downer, but it is what it is and we know the reasons why are genuine.

As for Esprit owners I'm happy to see a section within the forum for esprit tech subjects should the owners wish, or Resto projects, and if some of our gatherings can attract Esprits, I'd be very happy with the extra exposure it would give to our cars. As the thread heading, they are all of the same generation.

Tony
What goes together.... Must come apart.

TrevorK
Senior Poster
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 17:47
Model: Excel SE (Now gone)
Colour: White
Year: 1988
Location: Northamptonshire

Re: Representing the third generation….

Post by TrevorK »

I used to be a member of the Vintage Lamborghini Yahoo group. That went the other way as Yahoo was closing down groups and members were getting frustrated with the difficulties in searching the posts for information so they created a web forum. The problem with Facebook is that things get buried under a barrage of later posts and it's not at all used friendly.

It's interesting as the Elite/Expat and early Esprit shared the same basic suspension design. They were the only Lotus to use Lotus-designed and built engines. They were the "wedges." They were the " third-generation" Lotus. They were a combination of Oliver Winterbottom and Georgetto Giugiaro designs. They used the VARI process to make the bodyshells. So they have a lot in common.
What car is that?

Post Reply