Oh No Not Cambelt Again

[snafu]

When I replaced my cambelt earlier this year on my Excel SE, I used a Gates belt with the correct number of round teeth. On contacting Gates about this belt, which was the one for the Nissan Maxima V6 I think, they stated that the belt should have a life of 100 000 kilometres.

The Lotus belt which I purchased for one of my Turbo Esprits 4 years ago, I am told should be replaced at 20 000 kms or every 4 years.

What time period or mileage do you think I should replace the Gates belt at??

[amarshall]

Last time I asked the factory about "long life" belts they said 24000 miles or 2 years, whichever comes sooner.

Belts are cheaper than engines.

[AndyC]

Ignore the gates interval, it's based around the federal stipulation that timing chains & belts should last at least 100,000 miles. Lotus used the approach of initially recommending an interval, then to meet the federal requirements they changed nothing other than the interval (keep in mind this was by then the round tooth belt) and relied upon them not failing too often. They just did repair work under warranty as necessary. As the car is way beyond warranty and so all at you cost, go with not much more than 20,000 miles (or 20,000km if you want to be really cautious) and for an Excel (as it is so easy compared to the Esprit) why not just do it every other year and have piece of mind.

[snafu]

Not wanting to take a chance with the Red Esprit, I have purchased a new Gates Belt which is the 133 square tooth job for the amazing price of only 10 quid. I wonder what price you would pay for one of these in the U.K.

The round tooth belt, also a Gates for my Excel was almost double the price. Could not work that one out.

Much easier to replace the belt on the Excel that the Turbo Esprit. I have told my mechanic (who did the Excel belt for me earlier in the year) that I will pay him for 8 hours work to replace the Esprit's belt. He looked at the engine and then sort of looked at me funny.

[tonypoll]

There is an alternative Gates belt made from HNBR (hydrgenated Acrylonitrile-butadiene rubber - hope I got that right), which is the belt Lotus specified for its longer life, i.e. to meet the USA 100,000 miles between service laws.
This belt has the later HTD round toothed profile, and is blue coloured.

I've not been able to find one in the UK (I can only find the older HSN (highly saturated nitrile) belts, Lotus part number B912E6697F).
You can order an HNBR belt from JAE (http://www.jaeparts.com) in the USA, email jay@jaeparts.com. The cost is US$ 165 + P&P.

As mentioned elsewhere on this forum, Lotus later suggested that the belt be replaced more often than 100,000 miles (everywhere except the USA, where the law still requires 100,000 in certain states). I understand that although the belt will last 100,000 miles in controlled conditions (i.e. in the Lotus engineering test labs) in everyday use the belt tension needs checking more often.
So, maybe the HNBR belt is a better long term bet, but you should still check the tension every two years.

I've not tried this, but it sounds interesting, and JAE appear OK from their web site and other forums I've seen.

[tonycharente]

Hello All,
I'm just trying to face up to changing the cam-belt again on my 1989 Excel SE (so "round tooth" belt) before the winter arrives, but the last time I did it (at 4 years and 3 months, and 17,718 miles) the old belt still looked to be "as new". I'm now at 5 years but only 14,953 miles, the belt looks fine, the tension is fine, and it seems an awful lot of pain and effort possibly for nothing.

So my big question is: has anybody ever had a "round tooth" belt break, and if so at what age (time and miles) please?

NB I'm fully aware of the argument about a new belt costing a fraction of the price of an engine rebuild - I'm just trying to judge the true risk before deciding what to do.

Many thanks,
Tony

[tonycharente]

Hello All,
I'm just trying to face up to changing the cam-belt again on my 1989 Excel SE (so "round tooth" belt) before the winter arrives, but the last time I did it (at 4 years and 3 months, and 17,718 miles) the old belt still looked to be "as new". I'm now at 5 years but only 14,953 miles, the belt looks fine, the tension is fine, and it seems an awful lot of pain and effort possibly for nothing.

So my big question is: has anybody ever had a "round tooth" belt break, and if so at what age (time and miles) please?

NB I'm fully aware of the argument about a new belt costing a fraction of the price of an engine rebuild - I'm just trying to judge the true risk before deciding what to do.

Many thanks,
Tony

UPDATE
Thought the following might be of interest.

Winter arrived before I could attack my cam-belt, and stayed longer than usual...

It's been over six months, and not a single member has replied to report having had a "round tooth" belt break - at any age. Could this be significant?

Anyway, significant or not, my nerve finally gave way when the sun finally returned and I'm now half way through changing my cam-belt (delayed now 'cos my water pump failed a pressure test and I'll have to replace that too). As for my two previous cam belt changes, my old belt looks to be in excellent shape and could certainly have gone on for much longer, time and distance. It had been on since October 2007, so that's 5 1/2 years, and just under 16,000 miles. The car is used modestly but regularly.

Regards to all,
Tony

[KevW]

Yesterday I had the Gates cambelt on my Excel replaced with another Gates belt. The belt I had replaced had been on the engine for 4 years and had covered 13 000 miles. There were no visable signs of deterioration on the old belt.

This time I had the belt fitted by Colin at Revline, Whitley bay. Once we had taken the bonnet off he noticed the cam timing was out. It appears the garage I used to fit the belt 4 years ago had either mucked up the timing or failed to correct it. Needless to the say since the timing was adjusted the car now feels like a flying machine.

it's a shame it hadn't been sorted in time for the Croft Circuit event. If it had I might have been going around the track slowly as opposed to very slowly. And I've noticed every weekend since the Excel meeting has been blessed with great weather....

[BillB]

I drove my 90 Excel SE home before looking at the cam belt. When I took the belt cover off my heart nearly stopped! There was a half inch long split in the belt - fortunately along the length of the belt and not across it - but the damage went right through the belt to the toothed side. The back of the belt looked fairly crazed all over as well. Clearly this was a belt close to the end of its life and I'd had a very lucky escape.

As far as I can tell from the limited service information that came with the car the belt could have been on for 11 years and 31000 miles so it was seriously time-expired and also miles-expired. This was the round toothed black belt with red Lotus markings just visible. How much longer would it have lasted? No idea but not long so I'd say change it after 6 years and sleep easy.

BTW I changed the very similar-looking cam belt on my MX-5 at 11 years and 36,000 miles and that looked nearly new - but it runs fully enclosed by plastic casings to keep it clean and dark. Mazda recommend changing at 60,000 miles with no time limit but I decided enough was enough.

Good Luck

Bill

[garyexcel]

Hi Tony

Have just seen your post when I bought my 86 se in 2002 it had been standing for some time but started and ran fine I drove it hope and ordered the usual service parts including belt but before they arrived while driving on the motorway it stripped a number of teeth off the belt fortunately the only damage was 2 bent valves it could have been a lot worse the lesson is belts deteriorate with age as well as mileage so change them regularly its cheap and fairly easy to do.

Gary

[tonycharente]

Hi Tony

Have just seen your post when I bought my 86 se in 2002 it had been standing for some time but started and ran fine I drove it hope and ordered the usual service parts including belt but before they arrived while driving on the motorway it stripped a number of teeth off the belt fortunately the only damage was 2 bent valves it could have been a lot worse the lesson is belts deteriorate with age as well as mileage so change them regularly its cheap and fairly easy to do.

Gary

Hello Gary,
and thanks for your input, but how old was the belt, please?
It's certain that the belts, even the round teeth belts, deteriorate with time, but the question is what is the true safe period. My repeated experience is that after 5 years of limited but REGULAR use the belts still look pretty well like new - I expect standing for ages probably doesn't exactly help.
With age I am finding it less and less easy to do this job - in fact I don't find it easy at all - I am therefore planning to go to 6 years next time.
I'll report back if it breaks before then!
Tony

[garyexcel]

Hi Tony

The car had been standing for about 2 years and the PO said it had a new belt fitted about 2 years earlier so about 4 years but that relies on him being factual.

Gary

[tonycharente]

Hi Tony

The car had been standing for about 2 years and the PO said it had a new belt fitted about 2 years earlier so about 4 years but that relies on him being factual.

Gary

Hello Garry,
In the absence of evidence of its having been changed I am sure you were right to plan to change it right away - very sorry therefore that you were so unlucky.
Based on my experience so far I'm intending to stick with 6 years with modest but regular usage.
I faithfully promise to report back if it fails sooner.
Cheers
Tony