esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

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jeff.fenton
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esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by jeff.fenton »

These would look great on the back of an Eclat/Excel, no idea if they'd fit? EBay ref. 274430361224. Jeff.

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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by richardw »

Those wheels are Speedlines. The Iron Cross wheel was fittred to the early Excel as an option (and may have been sourced from Toyota? Not sure,,,)

With 100mm PCD they will only fit the S2.2 Elite and Eclat already fitted with Speedline wheels. The rest of the cars (and Excels) - except the Eclat 520 with steel wheels - used 114mm PCD; yes, there was also a Speedline of the same design with 114mm PCD for the Excel!

I believe these wheels are off an Esprit S2, which used the deeper dished 7.5" rims at the rear. No idea if they'd fit OK under an Elite/Eclat rear wheel arch though, but they'd look nice.

Cheers, Richard
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don.hasi
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by don.hasi »

S2.2 are NOT from Toyota and they have no 100pcd!
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by richardw »

don.hasi wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 19:35
S2.2 are NOT from Toyota and they have no 100pcd!
I didn't say they were! It was the Iron Cross wheels fitted to the Excel (therefore with with 114mm PCD) I was referring to. The S2.2, as I said, had 100mm PCD for the Speedlines.

Cheers, Richard
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don.hasi
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by don.hasi »

The S2.2, as I said, had 100mm
WRONG!!
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by richardw »

don.hasi wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 21:41
The S2.2, as I said, had 100mm
WRONG!!
Don, as far as I know, the S2.2s that had Turbine wheels had 114mm PCD, and the ones with Speedlines, as I said, had 100mm. I know because my S2.2 had 100mm PCD Speedlines fitted when I bought it. The parts list bears this out.

If you have different information, please advise!

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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by bash »

Still for sale if anyone wants them, and yes, they fit !!!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11489

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don.hasi
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by don.hasi »

richardw wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 22:59
don.hasi wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 21:41
The S2.2, as I said, had 100mm
WRONG!!
I know because my S2.2 had 100mm PCD Speedlines fitted when I bought it. The parts list bears this out
So you know it... of course because you measured it?
And please where in the parts list is it written?
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by richardw »

don.hasi wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:32
richardw wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 22:59
don.hasi wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 21:41


WRONG!!
I know because my S2.2 had 100mm PCD Speedlines fitted when I bought it. The parts list bears this out
So you know it... of course because you measured it?
And please where in the parts list is it written?
Lotusbits told me about the difference in PCD and that I couldn't reuse the Speedlines when I switched to my Excel setup. In fact, if you look at the 100mm PCD Speedlines, you can see that the centre hub has been (rather crudely) ground away adjacent to the wheelnuts to allow for the narrow PCD. The Excel Speedlines are not similarly mutilated.

The parts list does not specify the PCD, but shows both Turbine and Speedline wheels fitted to the S2.2. In the suspension section, though, you see two different hubs listed - one is specific to the Speedline fitment.

Why Lotus used a different PCD for the S2.2 Speedlines I don't know; maybe it was due to sharing them with the Esprit S2, wherever its hubs came from.

Cheers, Richard
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don.hasi
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by don.hasi »

Much words and no answers to the concrete questions. So let us get it straight: you DON‘T KNOW it. No measuring, no proof in literature. You just sum up some guesses and spread it without reflecting advises to it.

For the ones, who like facts not prosa, it is a 4inch pcd
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by igg-hiss »

If the Iron cross were sourced from Toyota (which it is not) however info from the the A60 Celica Supra family is easy to get and shows that:
Rim Diameter 14" (the inch is still current nomenclature for wheel diameter).
Rim width 7" (again this is still the current term in parlance).
Centre Bore 60.1mm (don't think any one would swap that over too 2.366", however the world is full of pedants).
PCD is 4X114.3mm (de rigueur terminology, however to be punctilious 4x4.5"may get quoted but then being really explicit no imperial measurement should ever be expressed as decimal using a number base of 10 (0-9)).
ET off set 8mm.

and that is if i am correct and " is an inch.

However they are not the same wheel so another internet search shows https://motor-car.net/tyres-and-wheels/ ... ment-guide

This shows the Eclat, Elite and the Excel being 4x114.3mm but really should it not be .01143 Meters. if we are to precisely express the value as an internationally agreed value the MM only exists to simplify expression and the meter is the only true measure?

Whereas the Esprit appears to carry either 4x100 (4x4") wheels until it shifts to the 5x120 (5x4and nearly3/4")

However this does not account for 520 Eclats which were blessed with 4x.01Meter/4x100mm or 4x4 wheel hubs. Indeed if the 520 could carry a different flange then at a latter date different wheels as long as they where 4x4" (4x100mm/4x.01M) could be facilitated quite easily by lotus should they have desired as the 4x4" drive flanges existed in the parts inventory. However no such flange variant has ever existed for the Excel hub and bearing structure.

So any Elite or Eclat can carry wheels of PCD 4x4.5" or 4x4" should the owner desire with a drive flange swap. They could also wear 4x100mm, 4x114.3mm, 4x.01Meter or 4x.01143Meter (I believe I am correct that the 0 is not required before a decimal point). Excels are stuck at the larger spacing - without engineering modifications that would be required.

However further research is needed into hub centres, wheel rim width and fixing format!!!!

What we now need to consider is:

A: To answer original question: yes they would look nice on a 520 Eclat or possibly a s2.2 Elite as Richard has said.
B: Is Richards statement true? well Lotusbits has always struck me as a honest operation, if Lotusbits said the original wheels could not be reused as they were of the wrong PCD for an Excite conversion (Elite body on an Excel running gear) and Richard needed to buy a set of Excel PCD wheels or a set of Elite Turbines. Then yes there must have been a small number of cars built later on in the Elites life with different hubs sourced from the 520 parts stockholding.

But lets put this into perspective only 88 series 2.2 Esprit's were built, the car is a hotchpotch of a mule and even utilised an earlier S2 chassis that was coated in a Galv process destined for the later Esprit S3 chassis. If you are going to build just 88 Esprit s2.2 cars in just over a year, then why not shove some parts bin flanges on the Elite Series 2.2 and use some different wheels?

what do we recon? Because getting a definitive answer about of something that happen in Hethel during the Late 70's and early 80's would require H G Wells to perfect the "Time Machine". Just to validate that parts books are not always the answer: Yesterday I fitted a set of Brake discs to a BMW 4 series that the factory parts catalogue said were wrong but the ones it did say were correct weren't appropriate and that was a 2015 car! assembled using a digital catalogue and comprehensive intelligent build process.

Must go there is a Morlock at the entrance to my Cave. :wink:
The Lotus Eclat, a lot like the English Whisky company: comes from Norfolk and better than you are often told it is.

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Lotus-e-Clan
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Anyway. 4 inches = 101.6 mm however. 4 inch PCD hub studs/holes won't take 100 mm PCD wheels (or visa versa) without fettling (that extra 1.6 mm is significant) ... which is potentially dangerous because the wheel nut (or bolt) seat is usually conical so the seats need fettling too....not a DIY job.
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Re: esprit "iron cross" 7.5 x 14 inch speedline alloys.

Post by bash »

Just to muddy the water, I thought early Esprits used Opal hubs, am I wrong ? Anyway, the Toyota style wheels DO fit the Excel, as for the others I dont know.

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