Front wheel bearing going out again?

The round black things at the bottom. Hope this helps with the where to put posts problem.

Moderator: Board Moderators

Post Reply
soldave
Regular Poster
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 22:34
Model: Eclat
Colour: Yellow
Year: 1979
Location: West Yorkshire

Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by soldave »

Right, so the MOT tester said yesterday the front wheel bearings on both sides could do with tightening up a little, but didn't warrant an advisory or anything. Went for a drive afterwards and I think there was a humming at 50mph on the passenger side, but which seemed to go away when I turned right and there was weight on it. Under 50mph I couldn't sense anything.

Got the car jacked up today and both sides sound like this video: https://youtu.be/qbw_stDxeIg

Question is: is that amount of sound "normal" or do they need replacing once again? The passenger side did need tightening up by one flat of the castellated nut, and that removed the little bit of 12 & 6 movement, but I've not done the driver's side as I wanted to get some thoughts from you knowledgeable folk first.

These bearings have only been on the car 6 months, and the ones before that 18 months, so if they are going back it may very well be my ineptitude in packing/installing them. Should also note that they sound nowhere nearly as bad as the ones I replaced in summer last year did (https://youtu.be/aZYGcxf_p0g)

User avatar
Hawaiis0
Senior Poster
Posts: 4130
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 18:39
Model: Excel SA (No 3); Elite 504
Colour: BRG; Dirty White
Year: 1986
Location: West Oxfordshire

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by Hawaiis0 »

Dont want to be the one to ask stupid question, but is any of that noise from the brakes?

Is the 12 - 6 wobble attributable to track rod ens etc.?
Nothing is fool proof. Fools are clever!

soldave
Regular Poster
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 22:34
Model: Eclat
Colour: Yellow
Year: 1979
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by soldave »

Hawaiis0 wrote:Dont want to be the one to ask stupid question, but is any of that noise from the brakes?

Is the 12 - 6 wobble attributable to track rod ens etc.?
Not track rod ends on the passenger side as tightening the bearing by one flat seemed to resolve it.

Very good question about the noise being brakes though and that's very possible. Might check the driver's side and then see how it drives/sounds

igg-hiss
Senior Poster
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:16

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by igg-hiss »

soldave wrote: Went for a drive afterwards and I think there was a humming at 50mph on the passenger side, but which seemed to go away when I turned right and there was weight on it. Under 50mph I couldn't sense anything.
Usually when you pressure the bearing up the noise gets worse not better, however I have learnt that cars can often defy the simple things in life, like -The laws of Physics. Usually the unloaded (as in reduced loading) bearing will go quiet, the right in right turn and left in a left turn. When this is not the case we may consider two possibilities one is sound transference (our ears playing tricks) or that the change of direction has whilst increasing load on the hub as a whole, but has decreased the load on an element of the bearing. If the noise is indeed coming from the side you think. look carefully at the outer bearing as the load will be firmly on the inner.

When buying replacement bearings, possibly try some one like Hayley bearing specalists (industrial bearing manufacturers tend to have better endurance, take your old bearings and they will match them) or someone who strives for longevity and strength to apply it in Motorsport (lotusbits). A great many parts I buy lately seem to be made cheaply with price seemingly the primary focus and functionality a distant second, this is especially true when buying parts for Triumph Stags, Heralds and Spitfires.

With regards to brakes have you changed anything lately, I spent an age looking for a strange noise on VW LT to find that new brake disc had been manufactured with a slightly higher top hat. As the bearing the moved slightly under a right hand turns the disc kissed the carrier no marking was readily visible, but it still sang out!
The Lotus Eclat, a lot like the English Whisky company: comes from Norfolk and better than you are often told it is.

Pete Boole
Senior Poster
Posts: 3711
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 21:28
Model: Elite
Colour: Monaco White
Year: 1974
Location: Nottingham

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by Pete Boole »

Also worth considering the inner bearing race spacing tubes you can buy for the Triumph 2000 - you shim up the spacer to give the proper clearance/preload on the bearings. This stops the inner races from rotating on the stub axle and wearing out the upright/stub axle.

Pete

User avatar
Hawaiis0
Senior Poster
Posts: 4130
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 18:39
Model: Excel SA (No 3); Elite 504
Colour: BRG; Dirty White
Year: 1986
Location: West Oxfordshire

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by Hawaiis0 »

This is the wear Pete mentions, from his refurb story - page 5 of viewtopic.php?f=7&p=80568#p80568

Thought this was scrap, but decided to machine it: The horrible brown tape is holding a balancing weight on!

Image


bit better:

Image


The felt seal will have about 0.5mm more crush than before, and the brake disc will be 0.5mm further inboard, but don't foresee any problems, and saved myself ~ £200 (both sides need machining) :D.
Still needs a new stub axle though.

I've found someone selling spacer kits that allow proper shimming of the bearings - this will prevent the inner races wrecking the upright/stub axle in future - proper engineering :D
Nothing is fool proof. Fools are clever!

Pete Boole
Senior Poster
Posts: 3711
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 21:28
Model: Elite
Colour: Monaco White
Year: 1974
Location: Nottingham

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by Pete Boole »

I'd forgotten about that post Stu! Actually, since then I have decided to go trunnion-less on the uprights. I'll post up some piccies of that later as well!

Pete

User avatar
Lotus-e-Clan
Senior Poster
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 13:25
Model: Excel SE - EWP/Waterless!
Colour: Not Blue or Green
Year: 1989
Location: Swaledale

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

There is definitely substandard poor quality bearings on the market.

I bought new hubs (complete with bearings) for the front of our SMART Roadster from an official SMART parts supplier and they lasted just one year (7000 mile) before they rumbled very badly both sides.

I rang the said supplier to complain and they admitted that they had been done-over with poor quality stocks from China. The replacements had proper Japanese bearings which 20K later are trouble free.

The Chinese bearings had no visible branding. The proper Japanese bearings were marked KOYO (BS approved). The tolerances required to grind perfectly spherical ball bearings are hugely important as is the hardness of steel used. Moral. Don't buy unmarked bearings. Even the suppliers got done on this.
Peter K

Pete Boole
Senior Poster
Posts: 3711
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 21:28
Model: Elite
Colour: Monaco White
Year: 1974
Location: Nottingham

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by Pete Boole »

I always buy Timken bearings if available, but I think some of those are now made in China - better quality control though I hope.

Pete

User avatar
DavidOliver
Senior Poster
Posts: 688
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:18
Model: Excel
Colour: Calypso Red
Year: 1985
Location: Malaga Spain

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by DavidOliver »

For Soldave. My opinion is the noise is brake pad scuffing, you need to take the wheel off and lever the pads slightly off the disc, wheel on and listen.
Newly installed bearings (without compression pipe inserts as our front bearings are) may settle in after driving and quite often should be re-adjusted for clearance.

Dave the cog.

User avatar
Tanz
Senior Poster
Posts: 2071
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 22:05
Model: SE
Colour: Calypso Red
Year: 1988
Location: Wolverhampton

Re: Front wheel bearing going out again?

Post by Tanz »

Pete Boole wrote:I always buy Timken bearings if available, but I think some of those are now made in China - better quality control though I hope.

Pete
I worked for Timken for 40 years. We made Aerospace bearings but I know there were lots of counterfeit bearings around both in Automotive and Aerospace. It is a big problem for 'proper' bearing manufacturers. As Lotus-e-clan says don't by bearings that don't have the manufacture, part no and place of manufacture marked on the ring side faces. Especially cam belt tentioners. Timken opened two big plants in china. One was aerospace hence they closed the Wolverhampton plant. I know as our work was moved to China we had a lot of problems getting them to understand the importance of quality. Getting them to cleanout the hardening furnaces was a nightmare.
Cheers, Phil
Never take life seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway!

Post Reply