Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Body parts, seats, dash, headlining, windows and stuff!

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Zulu 10
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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by Zulu 10 »

Pete Boole wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:46
Great to hear of another one being saved! Lots of photos needed :D

Pete
I'm happy to provide photos just as soon as I figure out how to attach them to posts.
rbgosling wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:48
Good luck with the resto, keep us posted, and do ask for any advice/help!

Where are you based? There may be someone on here who lives nearby, might be handy, or they may have advice on a good paint shop (or do you have the skills to paint yourself?).
I'm in the middle of nowhere in East Wiltshire, but thankfully have got two excellent one-man-band painters within 10 miles.

Having previously rebuilt large sections of my Stevens Esprit I'm fairly experience with the strange ways of Lotus, and the need for copious numbers of spare cutting discs when dismantling most parts.

The Excel will be getting a fair few modifications, amongst them Emerald driven fuel injection, air conditioning, and an Android head unit.

I'm hoping that the work will take two to three years...

Pete Boole
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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by Pete Boole »

Zulu 10 wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2023 20:37
I'm hoping that the work will take two to three years...
That's what I said 5 years ago :lol: :roll:

Pete

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ChrisJ
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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by ChrisJ »

Hadn't seen this thread before, but I bought the Excel from Sovereign Car Sales. I had kept my eye on it for quite a while and watched the price drop. They had no clue about Lotus cars, was advertised as an Eclat - as that was what was on the V5, so the car never came up in any searches for Excel. I knocked them down a fair bit.

It had not had a belt change for 3000 miles - which was in 1999. I had it trailered to GST as, once bought, I didn't want to drive it. Gerald thought that the belts could have gone at any time. The Nikasil liners went about 15 thousand miles after I bought it so GST rebuilt the engine. The previous owner had part exchanged it for a Turbo Esprit. This also hadn't had a cam belt change for a while, and he had a nice £8k bill when it let go shortly after purchase. I had managed to contact the previous owner through Club Lotus as the Excel came with no sun visors - of all things. Car run great, was out in it last night.

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rbgosling
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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by rbgosling »

Zulu 10 wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2023 20:37
The Excel will be getting a fair few modifications, amongst them Emerald driven fuel injection, air conditioning, and an Android head unit.

I'm hoping that the work will take two to three years...
Sounds very interesting, some quality but reasonably discreet upgrades. It would be fascinating to see it half-finished at the NEC Resto Show (in March 2025, we've already got Pete's car booked for the next show in '24), but I appreciate it's a bit of a hike from Wiltshire!
"Farmer" Richard

1990 Lotus Excel SE (Lilith)
2022 MG MG5 EV (not due to be a classic for quite a few years...)
2011 Nissan Leaf (Ragly - EV pioneer, must be due to be a classic one day)

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Zulu 10
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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by Zulu 10 »

rbgosling wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2023 14:03
Sounds very interesting, some quality but reasonably discreet upgrades. It would be fascinating to see it half-finished at the NEC Resto Show (in March 2025, we've already got Pete's car booked for the next show in '24), but I appreciate it's a bit of a hike from Wiltshire!
Which half would you prefer? The body half, or the chassis half? :wink:

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rbgosling
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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by rbgosling »

Zulu 10 wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2023 19:04
rbgosling wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2023 14:03
Sounds very interesting, some quality but reasonably discreet upgrades. It would be fascinating to see it half-finished at the NEC Resto Show (in March 2025, we've already got Pete's car booked for the next show in '24), but I appreciate it's a bit of a hike from Wiltshire!
Which half would you prefer? The body half, or the chassis half? :wink:
Either or both!!
"Farmer" Richard

1990 Lotus Excel SE (Lilith)
2022 MG MG5 EV (not due to be a classic for quite a few years...)
2011 Nissan Leaf (Ragly - EV pioneer, must be due to be a classic one day)

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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by Pete Boole »

I'm also considering using the Emerald ECU for my project - I'll be interested in how you get on with it. It's a good price and extras like a pigtail loom aren't ridiculously expensive. I spoke to them a while ago and they are hoping to include knock control later this year as well.

Pete

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Zulu 10
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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by Zulu 10 »

Pete Boole wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2023 21:55
I'm also considering using the Emerald ECU for my project - I'll be interested in how you get on with it. It's a good price and extras like a pigtail loom aren't ridiculously expensive. I spoke to them a while ago and they are hoping to include knock control later this year as well.

Pete
I've fitted Emerald ECUs to a number of cars over the years, the first being an M3D which was the predecessor to the K6.

The only criticism I have, and it applies to all aftermarket ECU vendors, is that I'm not terribly keen on their looms, hence I always make my own. The reason for my dislike is the type of cable that they use for analogue sensors which are susceptible to noise. Rather than traditional cable I always use Raychem Type 44 screened twisted pair/triple/quad with the all the screens tied down to a single star point.

Years ago, when I took my first car to Dave Walker at Emerald for mapping, he expressed some surprise at the techniques I had used, but then complimented me that mine was one of the very few kits cars that he had ever mapped which exhibited absolutely no signs of susceptibility to electrical noise. Praise indeed, so I've used the same principles ever since. Obviously in a car with a fibreglass body, the elimination of noise is even more important.

My dilemma at the moment is over the choice of throttle bodies and size: I understand that the existing Dellorto carbs are 45s, which I assume are fitted with 40mm choke tubes (can anyone confirm this, please?).

When converting to EFI there's obviously no point in fitting anything larger than this, so I shall probably buy 40mm throttle bodies, which will maintain a higher gas velocity at low throttle openings, than would 45mm bodies.

This coupled with the ECU's ability to finely control fuelling and ignition timing will result in far improved low down torque and responsiveness than a traditional carbs/dizzy set up.

There is a down side: when bolting 40mm bodies to an inlet manifold designed for 45mm carbs, there will be a 2.5mm 'step' at the carb/body interface. That may be enough to produce a pulsing air 'resonance' at one engine speed, but will be obvious as soon as we start to map it.

I can't decide whether to simply ignore the potential for this, or whether to build up the inside of the manifold with a bead of TIG, and then grind it back to perfectly match the new bodies.

The second dilemma is over the choice of manufacturer of bodies: my first ever set were home made, following an article in C&CC by the aforementioned Dave Walker, by machining down an old pair of Dellorto carbs, and filling all the superfluous holes I made a very acceptable set of bodies which I used for many years until I sold the engine complete with EFI set up.

Subsequently I used the de facto standard Jenvey throttle bodies, which are perfectly fine, but not cheap at £700 or so for a pair with linkage and fuel rail. Given that the design hasn't changed for 20 years I really think that Jenvey are kicking the behind out of the price, for they must surely have recovered the original tooling cost by now.

More recently I've seen reference to 'SherryBerg' which appear to be very similar (identical?) to the Jenvey offering, but obviously are made in China. By comparison, they retail at around £280, so I've a good mind to try them and see what the quality is like.

I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has experience of these...?

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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by Pete Boole »

Thanks Zulu. I've always made my own looms in the past but thought I might cheat this time and save some time. I'm using Hall-effect sensors for crank, cam and wheel speed so less affected by noise hopefully. I fitted Jenvey throttle bodies/manifold to a v8 some years ago and while they were nicely made they were really expensive and the after-sales support hopeless. I'd definitely be trying the cheaper alternative in your position (I'm using a single Bosch electronic throttle body for my current project).

I've got the vaguest recollection of the Jensen Healy having smaller inlet ports (head) - maybe someone on their forum might know if the inlet manifold is correspondingly smaller. Might give some scope for port matching your throttle bodies.

Following your project with interest :D

Pete

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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by bash »

One of the slight issues Ive had with my injection setup has been 'noise' through the wiring causing fault codes and even cutting out, it is a pain to deal with and twisted wires and rfi sleeves does seem to be the cure.

Bash
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Zulu 10
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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by Zulu 10 »

I hope this won't sound (too) patronising, but I spent 30 years working around aircraft, and learnt that it's not just about using twisted pairs (or more), it's about proper screening, and proper earthing (or grounding, depending which school you went to).

The key points are:

Keep the unscreened lengths of cable as short as possible.

Always ground the screen, but connect the screens to ground at one end only.

Having connected the screens for each cable collectively to a ground 'star point' then connect that through a single low-impedance braided connection to the power ground. The key is not to facilitate earth loops by having multiple parallel paths.

Make one connection from the ECU to that same power ground.

Even if one side of a signal pair is shown on an ECU diagram as being connected to ground in the ECU, then don't be tempted to let it make any other connection to ground, either to a local ground or the screen; just let the ECU be the path.

If at all possible, keep the heavy current drives to the coil(s) and the injectors in a separate cable bundle to those cables connecting the ECU to the sensitive signals from transducers. As Pete said earlier, moving to Hall Effect sensors will help, but having noise picked up on the power lines and fed back into the ECU is a recipe for jitter and confusion.

Finally, I realise that it's not cheap, but Raychem, or 'TE Connectivity' as the brand is now known, Type 44 is the gold standard for cables. It is strong, light, abrasion resistant, and comes as singles, screened twisted pair, triple and quad. Every so often some appears on EBay, sometimes by the metre, and sometimes as ends of roll, and if so I would recommend grabbing it with both hands.

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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by bash »

Useful info there, Ive spent hours twisting cables and using rfi sleeves and magnacor plug leads, relocating the coil etc and I still get the occasional fault code 36 for a couple of seconds even though the ecu is self contained within the 4 barrel unit, however it isnt causing any rough running (yet). I can see a winter wiring revision is on the cards. I think this is one of the slight issues you may encounter with modern tech on an old car.

Bash
Ps....its still much better than carbs though.
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Re: Potential Buyer Looking for Advice Please

Post by Pete Boole »

Great advice on using separate cable bundles - thanks.

Pete

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