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Door beam compatibility

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 23:27
by MetBlue
Does anyone know if door beams from a 76 MY Elite are likely to fit ( or can be made to fit) a late model year Excel?
I'm sure part numbers will be different, but that doesn't necessarily mean I can't make them fit.
Particularly thinking there may be some difference at the door lock end. Handles changed to Toyota parts I know, but did the actual latch change also?

Tony

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 08:39
by Pete Boole
I know the Excel has spacers between the beam and the latch but I think they are fundamentally the same. I'm sure what small differences there may be can be overcome. The Excel doors are soooo much better than the Elite doors!

Pete

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 16:46
by Hawaiis0
The latches at the beam end, are of triumph ilk IIRC.

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 17:03
by Johnwindwood
Hawaiis0 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 16:46
The latches at the beam end, are of triumph ilk IIRC.
Modified Triumph Dolomite rear door latches.

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 17:12
by MetBlue
Thanks guys. Enough encouragement there to cut the partially corroded flat sheet off the beam I have and replace with new, then get powder coated.
I'll plug up the opening at the front at the same time as my thinking is this allows salty road spray in and is the route cause of these beams rotting from the inside out.
Worst case, if I find a reason it won't fit I'll have a good beam to sell on.
Tony

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 21:47
by bash
Or, you could fill the beam with expanding foam. Keeps the crap out and makes it composite structure. Did mine about 20 years ago and they are still good.
Bash

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 22:28
by MetBlue
Good point. I think anything that stops spray entering the beam from the front open end will solve the beam life problem.

Obviously doesn't help the window frame rot problem. Am I right that it's usually the front A post leg that suffers most? If so, it's maybe the fact it's very difficult to seal between the outside of the beam and the inner door skin.

Tony

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 23:19
by MetBlue
I've been able to compare the latch end details of the 78MY Elite beam with the 92MY Excel beam today.
The latches are quite different, so the hole pattern and cut out sizes are considerably different.
Image.
At this stage did not want to remove door skin, but took best measurements I could, so now need to draw up to scale and over lay onto the Elite beam to decide if practical.
Will report further in due course. Many of the tapped holes on the Excel beam are in line with the 1.6 mm steel plate of the beam, hence I can feel small recesses behind the threads for bolt clearance. If the 2 M6 holes are in the right place for the door skin, I might have a fighting chance.

BTW, the new steel plates I'll be getting welded into my Elite beams got delivered today, so if I decide this is a mod too far, may well have a fully reconditioned Elite beam up for grabs before too long.

Tony

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 15:30
by MetBlue
For the record (just in case anyone looks at this thread in the future), below picture compares a 70's era door beam to the 80's / 90's Excel with the later latch type. It's a bit approximate, as I had to measure as best i could all hole positions, but it does give the visualisation of the differences.
Blue is the 70's Elite version, red is the later Excel. Holes "B" are the door shell mountings, "L" is the latch mountings
Image

Observations:
[*]The "B" holes are on a different pitch. I THINK B1 is in the same relative position ( all I know about the Excel B1 position is that it is 6" from B2, hence the indicated radius).
[*]L2 and L3 are too close together to move without first plugging the unused hole :(
[*]If I enlarge the opening to Excel size, I'll loose the Elite L4 hole for good.
[*]Excel hole L2 is on the same line as the beam, hence there is a relief in the Excel beam behind the hole. L4 was similar, but on my sketch it looks far enough away, so that is probably measuring error.

If you recall, I started this thread wanting to know if I could use a 70's beam on a late Excel.
My initial conclusion:
If these are ALL the changes needed, i can do it, but it's a lot of work. The second and third bullets above mean that if I later find another reason I can't use it on the Excel, I have a beam unsuitable for any car without going back to the welders :roll: :roll: (I still don't know if there are any other changes inside the beam, i.e. window frame mount positions or Door check strap which I do know to be different). Problem made worse because I won't know this until door is stripped out and when I start, I want to know I have the parts to complete. :roll: In summary, I need to see an Excel door beam off a car to decide my way forward.

Is there anyone out there within say 30 miles of Northampton with an Excel door in bits so i can come and compare ? If not, I'll be taking a trip to Lotusbits to see options.

My alternative is to finish the repairs of my Elite door beam and then sell it, using the funds to get an original Excel beam in some condition or other..
Anyone interested in a refurbished N/S Elite / Eclat door beam with good bushes and pin? (Flat sheet removed, shot blast inside and out, new sheet welded in and plan to get powder coated) drop me a PM. Happy to do the same refurb to an Offside door beam I already have if needed as well.

Tony

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 23:20
by MetBlue
Time to conclude this thread with a definitive - NO, they are not interchangeable.
The end plate detail I commented above could be adapted with a bit of dedication and plugging up at least one of the holes.
But the real show stopper is the end plate for the door latch on the Elite beam has a "kick" at the bottom ( where the lowest M6 tapped hole for the door skin is). The beams are the same length at the point the door latch attached, but this kick would hold an Excel door skin approx 6 mm away from it's intended position. If it were machined down to be flush, there would be next to nothing of the plate left !!

Image

The Elite beam is the one on the right - and is now a fully refurbished and Powder coated spare if anyone is interested in it.

Fortunately I concluded some weeks ago a correct Excel replacement from LB was the way to go ( the one on the left in photo), so someday soon, a door beam replacement is on the cards.

Tony

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 13:44
by Hawaiis0
Tony - a chap on FB is looking for a drivers door beam for an elite, if you want to advertise it there let me know

Stu

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 09:06
by theelanman
could you not make an end plate with slotted holes?
if the slot were to cover the same hole but for the 2 locations.........and B1 being constant
then the rigidity of the fixings should still work due to the opposing angles of the slotted holes.....

just a thought

Re: Door beam compatibility

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 21:20
by MetBlue
Tony - a chap on FB is looking for a drivers door beam for an elite, if you want to advertise it there let me know
Stu : Drivers beam is solid, but the flat plate does have a reasonable amount of rust that has gone through in a few spots. I have a plate to do the same repair as for near side, but too much else on currently to be doing it.
I'll put both in the "for sale" area on the forums in due course, but maybe at a time I'm ready to do a repair to O/S if someone then needs it.
could you not make an end plate with slotted holes?
Interesting thought. I think we may be forgetting the fact the holes are tapped M6 though. A tapped slot... um... now there's a thought. I wonder what you could use that for????

Tony